Snarked and Snarking~ How do you handle this?

[Cilean]

Oh my Gosh Isabella!!

That is priceless! LMAO!


Cilean

[CountessofPhoenix]

I can only speak from my own experience, a lot of faire goers and start out totally as mundanes and gradually transition to playtrons. My girls (4 out of 5)  attend fairs here in Texas, and all they want is a costume. They don't care how H/A it is they just want to play princess, pirate, fairy for the day. They have already begun to make known they want knew outfits for TRF. These girls are 13, 25, 27, and 30. Their costume taste are evolving every year and their interest in fair grows every year. I would hope that those who see us remember all of this is to encourage others to share in something we love and not discourage any on their path of enlightenment. Yes, we may laugh under our breath at some who cross our paths, but often it is a mundane in totally unsuitable garb sweating their backsides off in designer wear, thinking they are the cat's meow. What someone wears isn't as important as what they are feeling. If they feel like a member of the family it so enhances their experience they should be encouraged to continue. For a newbie a chemise and skirt may be the limit of their sewing abilities and or funds. Until we walk a mile in another's shoes to criticize those trying to fit is is just small minded. I wrote a song once about narrow minded people, the chorus went "Narrow minds don't forget, narrow minds they can't forgive. No wrong can be righted no matter how hard you try. You'll always be condemned 'til the day you die by those with narrow minds." I try to remember that as I journey day by day. Unfortunately there are those who think they are experts on everything and have to prove their superiority to everyone by belittling everyone. I was married to one of those. Toxic people cannot be avoided so you have to learn to just ignore them, or divorce them which ever is needed!!!!

[Lady_Claira]

I try not to put down anyone's choice of garb, but my own. Not that my own garb looks bad, but I am my biggest critique. Besides, I know my outfit is probably not very H/A. I'd love it to be, but right now I don't have the money. (though I am very proud that my entire outfit cost no more than $60. That's all I paid on it. Huzzah for having grandma donate fabric and Huzzah to symphony broadclothe!)

And have people snarked on me? Maybe! Maybe not! I don't know. I've only been to faire once, sadly. (I made the garb just for it) and the only comment actually said to my face was "Congrats on coming to your first faire in garb!" LOL. Every other comment I've received wasn't from faire and it was from my friends who can't sew and they were all like "HOLY COW!" lol.

But on the other hand, I know people are probably going to criticize my work, from the colour scheme to how I made the bodice (which I severely want to make a new one... I'm feeling like princess seems weren't the best option... even if the pattern told me to.) but on the other hand, if I like my work, why should I care what someone else thinks. We all have our opinions, so I'll deal with it.

[ladyecho]

A girl after my own heart! I, too, try to spend less than $100 on garb per year. It's HARD! And the H/A garb is oober expensive! (but it's soooo pretty!) It's also addicting. I find myself making new garb once a year.

[isabelladangelo]

A girl after my own heart! I, too, try to spend less than $100 on garb per year. It's HARD! And the H/A garb is oober expensive! (but it's soooo pretty!) It's also addicting. I find myself making new garb once a year.

I've made most of my garb for well under $100 for each gown.  If you sign up for coupons from Joann's or Fabric.com, you can get great deals on silks, linens, or wools.  Right now, uncut corduroy at Joann's is only $2.99 a yard.   It looks very similar to velveteen and has about the same weight.   Get five yards of that, make only simple tight fitted sleeves (or don't even bother with the sleeves and just have the chemise sleeves), and you can have a dress for under $20, assuming all you need to buy is the thread (that you have scissors, a sewing machine, pins, and a pattern already).  If you want trim, Wally World still has a lot of great trims for $1 a yard (if not less!).  You can make a dec'd out dress for under $25.   

What most people charge for who make garb isn't the fabric, but the complexity of the pattern and the labor that goes into make the outfit. 

Okay, now to get back on subject. 

I have seen a lot of bad garb at my local Renn Fest.  A lot.  What do I mean by bad?  I mean indecent.  Sheer tops and ill fitting bodice has been covered a bit already.   Unfortunately, some females at my faire clearly do it simply for the "shock" factor.  (There has been a crack down the past couple of years and it has gotten a LOT better)  There was one person I saw a few years back who wore just three pieces of leather hung together with safety pins.  Three pieces of leather don't cover me and the certainly didn't cover this person either. 

My point is very simple.  There is bad garb.  Very bad.  Yes, it would be nice if we "could just all get along and play and be happy shiny people" but the problem is that the world is not that perfect.  Some people wear things to faire because they see it as a mating service rather than the family friendly environment it should be.  Some people wear things to faire that make you question their sanity (a pink leotard and fairy wings is cute...but not on a hairy 50 year old man, that goes in the 250+ pound man wearing a speedo department.  Some clothing is age/sex/body shape discriminatory).  Is it nice to go up to the man and ask him if he's taken his medication today?  No.  However, giggling to your friends and family and doing the old "eye advert and whisper" can be quite funny.  Think of it this way, if nothing else, bad garb makes some people at least laugh.  I'm pretty sure there are any number of people that could do a whole comedic routine on bad garb at faire.   

There is a big difference between "trying" and "I'm going to do what ever I please and you can't stop me!".  I've seen both...a lot.  People that are trying will stop and look at other people in garb.  You can see that they are considering adding certain elements to their own garb that they like.   The "you can't judge me!!!" tend to be far nastier than any snark I have ever encountered, ever.

So...is this a long enough post?  I'm leaving for Vacay tomorrow and want to make sure I get enough in before that.   

[Miranda]

A girl after my own heart! I, too, try to spend less than $100 on garb per year. It's HARD! And the H/A garb is oober expensive! (but it's soooo pretty!) It's also addicting. I find myself making new garb once a year.

Quite the contrary....the 1560's gentry garb I am building has cost me about 100 dollars.  The wool for the kirtle and gown cost 56 dollars, the linen for the lining was 28 and the canvas for the interlining was 5.  Thread was 50% and cost me about 10 bucks. So about 100 dollars.  A great approach which has served me well, is build pieces rather than entire costumes.  I picked a group of signature colors, and try to stay within that color family, or pick fabrics that compliment that color family.  That way the kirtle I make for bristol will match the doublet I make for TRF and in several seasons, I have a wardrobe of complimentary garments.  So if truly H/A garb is your eventual goal...it can be done without breaking the bank.  You may not be able to recreate Holbein's Jane Seymour dress for 100 dollars.  But you can build nice merchant class stuff.

What most people charge for who make garb isn't the fabric, but the complexity of the pattern and the labor that goes into make the outfit.

Sorry Isabella, have to disagree with you.  Fabric is the foundation.  You can make the most wonderfully constructed costume, but if its out of poly velvet...its not going to look right.  The amusing thing is...natural fibers can be had for equal costs, and sometimes cheaper than the chemically built version.  That being said.. I cut my costuming teeth on cotton broadcloth, muslin, and stuff I could find.  My first bodice, that  I was truly proud of was made from an old suede skirt from good will.

Which brings me back to the original thread....

And I'm probably going to be "Virtually Kicked" for what I'm about to say.
I make garb.  I'm an artist.  My medium may be wools, linen, silk, and thread, but I'm an artist just the same.  And you know what happens when you exhibit your art?  You are going to meet people who like it, and people who don't.  That is the thing about art...not everyone agrees with your choices.  And outspoken people are going to tell you so.  The only thing you can do, is know why you made the choices you did, and suck it up, and know you are in good company.

[Merry]

Isabella said..
>>What most people charge for who make garb isn't the fabric, but the complexity of the pattern and the labor that goes into make the outfit.

Miranda said...
>>> Sorry Isabella, have to disagree with you.  Fabric is the foundation.  You can make the most wonderfully constructed costume, but if its out of poly velvet...its not going to look right.  The amusing thing is...natural fibers can be had for equal costs, and sometimes cheaper than the chemically built version.  That being said.. I cut my costuming teeth on cotton broadcloth, muslin, and stuff I could find.  My first bodice, that  I was truly proud of was made from an old suede skirt from good will.

I interpreted Isabella's comment to mean that it's the labor you are really paying for, not the fabrics.  Not that the fabrics are wrong or cheap, but the labor has more value.

Which brings me back to the original thread....

And I'm probably going to be "Virtually Kicked" for what I'm about to say.
I make garb.  I'm an artist.  My medium may be wools, linen, silk, and thread, but I'm an artist just the same.  And you know what happens when you exhibit your art?  You are going to meet people who like it, and people who don't.  That is the thing about art...not everyone agrees with your choices.  And outspoken people are going to tell you so.  The only thing you can do, is know why you made the choices you did, and suck it up, and know you are in good company.

And as for the virtual kicking, well, it won't be by me, Mirabella, in fact, I'll give you a virtual pillow for protection:)

[Miranda]

Yeah, read that wrong.  :-)  It was still early here.

[Hoowil]

Effort to play means more than anyhting to me. Even 'poorly' made garb is garb. We all start somewhere. Yes, it does becomes a growing process, and we all improve our garb as time passes. If someone gives you advice, or pointers, even if it is a biy snarky, thank them for there help. If they are obviosuly just trying to put you down, tell them to f-off, and enjoy the faire.

[isabelladangelo]

Isabella said..
>>What most people charge for who make garb isn't the fabric, but the complexity of the pattern and the labor that goes into make the outfit.

Miranda said...
>>> Sorry Isabella, have to disagree with you.  Fabric is the foundation.  You can make the most wonderfully constructed costume, but if its out of poly velvet...its not going to look right.  The amusing thing is...natural fibers can be had for equal costs, and sometimes cheaper than the chemically built version.  That being said.. I cut my costuming teeth on cotton broadcloth, muslin, and stuff I could find.  My first bodice, that  I was truly proud of was made from an old suede skirt from good will.

I interpreted Isabella's comment to mean that it's the labor you are really paying for, not the fabrics.  Not that the fabrics are wrong or cheap, but the labor has more value.

Yeap, that's what I meant.  Thanks!   

[Artemisia]

My first SCA event was a sewing guild meeting. Forgot the name of the guild, sorry. Anywho I went with the intention of learning. To have these women (and men) share their wealth of information and experience with me. I was drooling at the thought.

I garbed up in my best (at the time) basic faire cotton/polyester peasant garb and headed out for the event. Boy, was I snubbed! No one, save one woman, gave me the time of day. I was expecting information and all I got were people who couldn't be bothered with someone who would have the nerve to show up at their meeting dressed in such a way. All these women showed up dressed to the nines and I could hear the compliments they were lavishing on each other. I felt like the outsider not being told to leave. I felt SO uncomfortable I left after an hour.

That made me believe, for a long time, that A&S SCAnadians were haughty and so full of themselves that they couldn't be bothered with a newcomer who only wants to learn to play by their rules. To this day, I won't go to SCA Guild meeting.

Thank Goodness for Pennsic. There I've only come across good people who give me good advice and constructive criticism. I was only snarked once with the words, "That's poor." from two passerby women who commented on my linen surcoat and tunic. I know I'm a novice so I filed the snark in my "Ok, this outfit isn't going to work" folder. I wished they've stopped me and told me WHY my garb was poor instead of just walking away.

Give constructive advice and be someone novices look up to instead of being a drive-by snark that people look down on.

Edit: And thank Goodness for the internet and forums like this.

[LadySeasan]

ive never been snarked ( and hope to never be) . i love ALLLLL types of garb,whether h/a or not.  people put alot of effort (such as me!) into their outfit, and the last thing that they need to be told is what is wrong with it

i in fact know that my dress is not h/a, and it may not be the best looking dress, but darn it, i made it and i love it !

i cant stand garb nazi's

[DonaCatalina]

My first SCA event was a sewing guild meeting. Forgot the name of the guild, sorry. Anywho I went with the intention of learning. To have these women (and men) share their wealth of information and experience with me. I was drooling at the thought.

I garbed up in my best (at the time) basic faire cotton/polyester peasant garb and headed out for the event. Boy, was I snubbed! No one, save one woman, gave me the time of day. I was expecting information and all I got were people who couldn't be bothered with someone who would have the nerve to show up at their meeting dressed in such a way. All these women showed up dressed to the nines and I could hear the compliments they were lavishing on each other. I felt like the outsider not being told to leave. I felt SO uncomfortable I left after an hour.

That made me believe, for a long time, that A&S SCAnadians were haughty and so full of themselves that they couldn't be bothered with a newcomer who only wants to learn to play by their rules. To this day, I won't go to SCA Guild meeting.

Thank Goodness for Pennsic. There I've only come across good people who give me good advice and constructive criticism. I was only snarked once with the words, "That's poor." from two passerby women who commented on my linen surcoat and tunic. I know I'm a novice so I filed the snark in my "Ok, this outfit isn't going to work" folder. I wished they've stopped me and told me WHY my garb was poor instead of just walking away.

Give constructive advice and be someone novices look up to instead of being a drive-by snark that people look down on.

Edit: And thank Goodness for the internet and forums like this.

We went to an SCA event this weekend. I was disappointed to see that 80% of the people there had garb that was bought from a single person's website that I immediately recognized.
Many of these people in the past have....well... led others to believe that they made their own garb.

I still feel that if you make the effort to make your own garb, even it is not 100% H/A, at least its uniquely yours. That in itself makes it good.
I'm not knocking people who buy their garb. Not everyone sews and buying garb supports those people who really like to make garb and keep Faires going by providing merchants for the Faires.

But if you're going to brag on your costuming skills, at least make your own stuff.

[Cilean]

I keep hearing such horrible stories in the SCA and it makes me blush! I have been part of the SCA for a long while and in 3 kingdoms so far...I have had issues but it made me work harder to make my garb better to become a better seamstress. Heck I went to my first SCA experience without a stitch of garb!  We had to go to gold key and I was worried that I could not find anything in my size, and it was welcomed with not 1 but 16 different gowns to try on! I embraced the dream right then and there.  I am sorry that you did not gain that experience, and I wish I could slap some sense into some of these supposed SCAers who have lost their manners and chivalry.  Perhaps it was in their other garb!!! Poo on them!  Please? Don't think this is the norm for SCA it is not. 

Also and this is not an excuse but perhaps a reason for their behavior, I have been the 'welcome' wagon for many years in my old shire and principality, there are those who come, and think you are their personal garb-slave.  I had a lady, who claimed to know how to sew (basic) I showed her my 2 hour gown and how to adapt it to fit her and I went with her on a shopping excursion, showed her good fabrics in her colors which she refused and picked up knit with printed designs, and polyester, but it was her choice, and helped her pin and cut out.  While at my home, she saw a Venetian I was working on with a friend for myself, and promptly said she would wear it! She wanted me to give it to her because she was new and even tried to put it on over her clothing to see how the fit was.  Can I say I was utterly nonplussed? I could only stare and then? My friend said ....Cilean has been helping you for 3 weeks now to get your garb together, while working a full 60 work week....the lady just smiled and said I could have her fabric in recompense. .....    We found out later this lady had some mental issues.... But she tried to take my dress with her when she left! She did steal pins, pin holder and 2 patterns as well as a basket that I had in my living room.  I guess I should be glad my sewing machine was being used because she mentioned she really liked it! LOL

Or? One lady? She had 4 children and was new so we all chipped in to help her create her families clothing.  She then proceeded to whine about the skills of the people who came over to her home for 4 weeks, and helped her get her entire family outfitted!!!!  One lady only hand sews and she complained (To others) how slow she was!  She was from Faire and had faire peasant gear but wanted 12th Century Welsh (!).

It can make you a little jaded to want to get to know people, because you don't want to be used.  I am not condoning their actions, but perhaps they had had some of these experiences.  In fact I no longer make clothing for people outside my family and immediate friends due to the utter lack of gratitude that people show.  I know those who sew for a profession often get that response as well.


I have yet to make a Pennsic, I make my own clothing for the SCA and for Faire is because I know what I want....and now I know how much effort it is to create and bring it forth.  I was born in PA, and I know how the Humidity works on my body, perhaps if I lost weight down to a size 12 it might not be so bad? But I doubt it, I throw up and can breathe with the heat/humidity.

As for Cheap Fabric:

I am one who tries to get the deal, I love getting an entire outfit out of a couple of drapes for .99 and some .25 per yard trim! But I do love how a silk taffeta farthingale feels and sounds when you walk. Of course? I got that silk taffeta for $5.00 per yard!

I don't go to Britex in San Francisco, because while they have wondrous fabrics so are their cost!!!  I don't go to Michael Levine's in LA for the same reason.  While they do have some awesome things? Their prices makes my head hurt! 

I am on every fabric sites coupon emails, I watch fabrics for the sales, because I have the ability to fly? I can go to the deal!

I just scored Silk heavy Taffeta for $11.56 per yard (Home Fabrics Summer Sale)for the Henrician Tudor Overgown and 7 yards of silver on silver Fleur de Lys fabric for the Kirtle.

Cilean

[Artemisia]

No, not all SCAnadians lack manners and chivalry. I've learned in my four years in the SCA that only a small handful are that way - just like RL. 

I love the SCA and the vast majority of the people who play in it. Always helpful, always fun, always there for you when you need them. Even though I don't go to Guild meetings I have gone to shire meetings and archery practice, which are more important to me. Still haven't gone to court - that is next on my to do list.

My prior experience was just one pertaining to this discussion. It is not the way I view the SCA in general - that's for sure!