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New Project! Making a Nobles Gown From Scratch-and I need your help!

Started by LadySeasan, August 25, 2008, 04:53:29 PM

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LadySeasan

So as many of you know, I converted a wedding dress into a nobles dress.  I received alot of help from you lovely ladies, and here is the finished product:



now i love that dress dearly, as it was my first big project. but the sewing machine is calling me again and it wants me to make a new nobles dress!

now i dont really read patterns, everything i do is freehand. so i have no problem with making the skirt, and the underskirt part, nor the sleeves. what i need help with is the actual bodice part

see my current gown is a wedding gown, so all the work was done, all i need to do was sew the fabric onto it to complete the gown. now that i am making a gown from scratch, what is the easiest way to mimic a sturdy bodice?

i know you ladies can help :)  thanks in advance!
xoxo
Clan M'Crack-Season M'Crack

gypsylakat

generally, patterns aren't that complicated, but you could use the elizabethan corset generator to make up a picture pattern and then it's pretty easy to put together.... http://www.elizabethancostume.net/custompat/
"A kiss can be a comma, a question mark or an exclamation point.
That's basic spelling that every woman ought to know."

Kate XXXXXX

I'm of the same opinion: go with the corset generator and use the instructions for doing it as a bodice.  Mine came out like this: http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk/KatePages/Costuming/Kate's_Klobber/DSCF0047.JPG

If you want the lacing up the back or at the sides, that too is doable.

BTW, that conversion looks pretty convincing.   :)

LadySeasan

thank you for the suggestion Gypsy. i went to the website, entered my measurements and the pattern looks very easy for me to follow :) so it looks like i wont be having much trouble with that :)

and kate your bodice looks very good :) what i want to know is besides the fabric i am going to use, what can i use to make the modice sturdy? is there an alternate besides boning?  I don't really want to be bound up in a tight bodice type. also i dont know how to do boning, lol :) and i may not have the patience to do so...  ill take the non historical route and wear a girdle underneath the dress, so the bodice doesn't need to be terrible sturdy, just sturdy enough to hold :)

and Kate, thanks for the compliment :) im glad that it is convincing, lol
Clan M'Crack-Season M'Crack

LadySeasan

So at some point today I am going to draw out a mock bodice on paper, and then possibly use extra fabric i have around the house to do a real one

im still dont know how to do boning, so are there any suggestions on how to make the fabric sturdy?
Clan M'Crack-Season M'Crack

sealion

Heavy twill interlining (sandwiched between your fashion fabric and lining) will help but sewing boning channels really isn't difficult. I really can't imagine a modern girdle being comfortable out in the heat and humidity of faire. I baste the lining and interlining together then sew the boning channels. (Some people sew two layers of interlining together and do the channels then put that between the fashion fabric and lining if they don't want the channels to show on the inside.) I use the thickest plastic cable ties/duct ties from the home mprovement center for my boning. I cut them with my kitchen shears then pass the cut ends through a candle flame to smooth them.

(This is from the front closing bodice I just finished but I did the boning the same for the side-back laced bodice in my avatar.)
Cindy/Ciana Leonardi di Firenze/Captain Cin

gypsylakat

sewing channels really is easy... i was scared of it too when i set about working on my first one... now i am not, you may decide to wait till your at fair and try on one of the bodices there, a good one. see if you like it first, then decide if you want a modice or a bodice...
"A kiss can be a comma, a question mark or an exclamation point.
That's basic spelling that every woman ought to know."

Lady Kathleen of Olmsted



Lady Season!!  Huzzah to you to undertaking a Noblewoman's ensemble.

Here's the link to one of the best sites on how to do this and that, as well as see what others have done in regards to making Noble Garb. It is quite a lot to research and learn.  http://www.elizabethancostume.net/

Enjoy the challange. We are here to mentor you when you need us.
"As with Art as in Life, nothing succeeds like excess.".....Oscar Wilde

Kate XXXXXX

My best advice for both comfort and looks would be to go the whole hog!  Use the Corset Pattern Generator to make a proper corset: you'll really only need one (though making them gets addictive!), and then you can use the same pattern to make as many bodices as you'll ever need.   :D

A modern foundation garment won't give the correct shape and, being made of nylon and latex and spandex, and all sorts of other nasties, will be much hotter and sweatier than a linen canvas one.

Sewing boning channels is dead easy: they are just straight lines, and if you draw them on in chalk first, they are no problem, honest! 

LadySeasan

ok, so my question is, how do you sew the boning channels?  between what layers do they go to? the lining and the interface?
Clan M'Crack-Season M'Crack

gem

If you're making a corset, you'll be making it out of something heavy like 2 layers of canvas, so you'll sew right through both layers of canvas, and then bind the edges (see the beautiful blue one that Sealion posted).

For a bodice, I like to use 2 layers of canvas for the interlining/flatlining, and again--just sew through both layers.  You can then decide if you want a fourth layer of lining (fashion fabric|canvas|canvas|lining)--which I recommend--or if you just want the three layers--the fashion fabric on top of the canvas.

See here for some good construction tips:  http://freespace.virgin.net/f.lea/kirguide2.html

LadySeasan

ok i think! i can do this :)
i will definitely try

what do you suggest to use as the lining?
Clan M'Crack-Season M'Crack

Kate XXXXXX

plain cotton or linen.  Personally I'd make the whole thing out of either linen OR cotton so that both the lining and the foundation layers behave the same way.

LadySeasan

Quote from: Kate XXXXXX on August 27, 2008, 04:06:12 PM
plain cotton or linen.  Personally I'd make the whole thing out of either linen OR cotton so that both the lining and the foundation layers behave the same way.

cotton, got it :)

so basically what i do is
1) cut out the shape of the bodice on my fashion fabric, and lining/canvas
2)sew the lining/canvas and the channels and insert the boning
3) sew the lining/canvas to the actual fashion fabric
4) and then use bias tape to cover the top and bottom

do i have it?
Clan M'Crack-Season M'Crack

Kate XXXXXX

Pretty much.  You can see the whole process for that black velvet one of mine here: http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk/KatePages/Costuming/Kate's_Klobber/black_bodice.htm

I will say that in the future I will use two layers of cotton canvas rather than the poly cotton twill and sheeting, and line the thing as well as add the fashion fabric to the outside.

LadySeasan

ok! thank you sooo much ladies for your help! i will update once i get my new sewing machine and fabric :)
thanks again, you ladies are amazing :)
Clan M'Crack-Season M'Crack

Lady Kathleen of Olmsted




Lady Season

My first Corset was made very much like this one 7 years ago...





I used the simple Corset pattern from Alter Years http://www.alteryears.com/  that can be made with or without tabs.

I used 3 layers of a heavy  Cotton Canvas Duck, in which I drew the boning channels. The inside and outside fabrics are usually Cotton Broadcloth or a nice print for something special, finishing off with Bias at the edges. For boning, I used the long Cable Ties that can be purchased in the Plumbing section of a Lowe's or Home Depot. They are 34" long adn come ina  package of 6. Back lacing with aded lace for that finished touch.

Hope this helps you in making your corset. The instructions are easy enough to follow as well as comprehend.
"As with Art as in Life, nothing succeeds like excess.".....Oscar Wilde

Kate XXXXXX

Quote from: LadySeasan on August 27, 2008, 04:58:29 PM
ok! thank you sooo much ladies for your help! i will update once i get my new sewing machine and fabric :)
thanks again, you ladies are amazing :)

Start a new thread, annd tell us about the new machine!   :D

Cilean



May I suggest something you will really enjoy? Every single year that you go to the Ren Faires?

www.margospatterns.com these patterns have the best information with them, they come with many variations, information on what type of fabrics to use. 

They are really some of the best patterns on the market.  I enjoy Kass McGanns www.Reconstructinghistory.com patterns as well, but they do not have as much information or variation within them.   I don't know if Ninya and Jane from Tudor Tailor will be making it to the US next year as they had hoped.  I am still hoping they will be and I have told them if they could to try to go to Costume Con 27 in Baltimore, because it would be great to speak with so many costumers from all over at once.

Any of these patterns (but especially Margo's) will help you to get the best beginning look to your garb making.

By the way? Welcome to the madness!
Cilean

Lady Cilean Stirling
"Looking Good is not an Option, It is a Necessity"
My Motto? Never Pay Retail

sealion

I have to second the endorsement of Margo's patterns. They are not inexpensive but definitely worth the investment. You not only the pattern tissues but a very extensive instruction manual as well.
Cindy/Ciana Leonardi di Firenze/Captain Cin

Alisoun

I agree.  I recently received my Margo's, and they are wonderful.  Aside from the information and tips, there is so much room to alter and customize depending upon your tastes.  However, my first corset was AlterYears, and it plays well with my garb from other sources.
"Act as if what you do makes a difference. It does." --William James

shaunalee

Two things..if you don't need the support of bones you can use the plastic cross stich stuff between the lining and the fabric...if you want a real hour glass look and comfortable support make the bodice up to the point of top and bottom trim, top stich binding tape to the inside of the bodice at either side of the laces in front directly over the middle of breast, at the side seams and either side of middle back, stich around the top and then slide flat steel stays into the pockets and finish the bottom.  I prefer 3/8 inch flat steel as I'm rather busty and they do not bend in and poke when tightly laced.  I use a Simplicity pattern for civil war undergarmets and then lengthen the pattern a couple of inches.  This is a very simple corset, easy to alter, and very comfortable to wear when made with all the stays called for (22 total)

Cilean



First off if you want a great looking outfit (and who doesn't) trying to 'wing it' may not be the best thought, I see many people saying the same thing so may I also ask you to look over some patterns?

I have issues with patterns myself, so I would suggest Margo Anderson's Patterns.  Kass McGann's at Reconstructing History, has some pretty great patterns that might help you.

A gown for the Upper Echelon would have been the best that they could afford to have made for themselves, they would pay enormous amounts and it is because it was meant to impress.  So I do very much suggest you do look at the complete outfit. The outer gown is the TIP of the Elizabethan Iceberg. 

Pair of Bodyes, what we call a Corset is necessary along with the other underthings to create the best possible conical silhouette.


After seeing what you have done with your other gown, I am sure you can make a Noble Gown that is lovely and will lovely as well.

Good Luck
Cilean


Lady Cilean Stirling
"Looking Good is not an Option, It is a Necessity"
My Motto? Never Pay Retail

Miranda

Margo makes a fairly good pattern, with some caveats.  Definitely make a mock up.  Bonus points if you can wrangle someone to fit it on you.  Margo's patterns do have some fitting issues depending on your body type.  This is good advice for any pattern, really, so get in the good habit of making a mock up now. This will save you lots of grief if things don't go the way you want them too, and you need to tweak things.  Tweaking a muslin is a lot less stressful, heart breaking, gut wrenching, what have you, than tweaking your velvet, brocade, or silk fashion fabric.
If you want a reasonably historical dress, avoid any Victorian type corsets, seriously they muck things up.  Victorians were all about the Hour Glass shape. Elizabethans were all about the inverted cone on cone shape.
You should build boning into your bodice even you are making a separate corset because it gives you a nice crisp wrinkle free garment.  That being said a corset will make your life easier, once you've gotten through the initial thoughts of "WHAT AM I DOING."  A separate corset puts the stress of smoothing any lumps, supporting the girls, (you know corset jobs) on the corset.  This reduces the strain on your bodice, which will make it wear better and last longer.  If you can muddle through them, I really recommend tabs on the bottom of the corset, they will be your best friend.  Tabs take the weight of the skirts off of your hips making for a much more comfortable costume wearing experience.  Cable ties are great for a first corsetry project (2nd and 3rd as well) because they don't require any specialized tools.

Farthingales are really worth the trouble, as they also help take the weight off of your lower body and sometimes serve to help keep you cooler.

In all honestly I think silhouette is paramount for first impressions.  It is what makes the eye say "that's Elizabethan, that's Tudor, that's Victorian."  You get silhouette right, and you've conquered the biggest part of the project.  I always want to start out with the pretty fabrics too, but build your undies first, then work your way out, and you will be a much happier camper.  Another plus, once you have your undies, you can build a whole wardrobe of pretty dresses to wear over them....undies are recyclable.

Lady Margaret Howard -The Order of St. Thomas More.