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Author Topic: Machine - can it still be h/a?  (Read 4624 times)

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Offline ADraeger

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Machine - can it still be h/a?
« on: October 02, 2008, 03:11:37 PM »
I've been lurking about these boards, read various posts about h/a garb (I don't think I'm very h/a.. see profile picture).... my question is this:  Can machine sewed still be considered h/a?  Thoughts, facts, anyone? :) 

Offline gem

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Re: Machine - can it still be h/a?
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2008, 04:04:27 PM »
Different garbers go to different degrees of historical accuracy--and they're all OK.

Frankly, I don't believe we can ever get fully H/A because we aren't growing our sheep or flax or dyestuffs in the exact same environmental conditions, to start.  Anything from there is just an approximation and an educated guess.

I would say that a machine-sewn garment is no less H/A than one made from fabric woven on a modern power loom and dyed with modern dyes and finished with modern methods.

That said, I know that one standard *many* historical costumers try to achieve is having no VISIBLE machine stitching on their garments.

Offline Kate XXXXXX

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Re: Machine - can it still be h/a?
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2008, 04:12:46 PM »
Gem, that's pretty much what I aim for with the customers.  Some of the machine finishes have to be inspected REALLY closely before you see the difference from the visible side, too.  I've had to show some folk the machine at work on the 'Heirloom' buttonholes before they believed THOSE were machine sewn!   ;D  Really, no-one can afford to pay me the hours to hand stitch something...

It is possible to start with a sheep and end up with a garment, hand or machine sewn.  It's hard work...  http://schmidling.com/fiber.htm

Offline Cilean

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Re: Machine - can it still be h/a?
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2008, 09:21:45 PM »


In the 16th Century Gentry and above would not make their own clothing, perhaps some underthings,  the Tailors Guilds were very strong. A person would come into the shop be shown fabrics, and then the tailor would send out the pieces to be embroidered by women in embroidery guilds.  When that was completed it was brought back to the Tailor who would then complete the outfit.

I am a Wealthy Gentry woman, I have a Tailor who is my personal Tailor so I have Myst a Viking and she also does embroidery for me.  I am lucky in that respect.  I am able to create the clothing in my home without paying for an outside tailor to do my bidding.

So yes you can achieve seams that are exactly from 16th Century techniques.

You can be H/A, and still use a sewing machine.


I hope this helps!
Cilean




 
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Offline ADraeger

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Re: Machine - can it still be h/a?
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2008, 04:28:28 PM »
Wonderful!  I feel much better. :)  I understand exactly what y'all mean by no visible machine stitching... I'm going to do my best to accomplish this.   As for the link... yikes.  That would be amazing..but.. I'd have to be 80 years old, retired, and bored before I could devote such time. lol :) 

Offline Kate XXXXXX

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Re: Machine - can it still be h/a?
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2008, 06:09:59 PM »
Well, since this was done by hand, I think that anything that resembles that even a stitch done by machine will pass muster!   ;D ;D


Offline LadyElizabeth

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Re: Machine - can it still be h/a?
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2008, 01:38:18 PM »
I totally agree with the "to what degree do you want to take your h/a?" 

As some women mentioned, there are a few seamstresses on here who do hand embroidery of certain garb, or who set up their machines to do embroidery on their garb.  Then there are those who buy already embroidered fabrics from the stores. 

And honestly, I'd consider myself a moderate H/Aer and I buy my embroidered fabrics, attempt for no visible machine lines (though I'm not strict with it), do all my beadwork by hand, and still use metal eyelets instead of by hand (I don't have a fancy machine and I also don't have the time). My focus on H/A is more the actual patterning and finished project look for my character than the nitty gritty details since I truly believe it's not remotely possible to be 100% accurate. 
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Offline ADraeger

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Re: Machine - can it still be h/a?
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2008, 03:34:26 PM »
Well, since this was done by hand, I think that anything that resembles that even a stitch done by machine will pass muster!   ;D ;D



Wow, that is beautiful! Did you make that yourself? 

Offline ADraeger

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Re: Machine - can it still be h/a?
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2008, 03:35:41 PM »
I totally agree with the "to what degree do you want to take your h/a?" 

As some women mentioned, there are a few seamstresses on here who do hand embroidery of certain garb, or who set up their machines to do embroidery on their garb.  Then there are those who buy already embroidered fabrics from the stores. 

And honestly, I'd consider myself a moderate H/Aer and I buy my embroidered fabrics, attempt for no visible machine lines (though I'm not strict with it), do all my beadwork by hand, and still use metal eyelets instead of by hand (I don't have a fancy machine and I also don't have the time). My focus on H/A is more the actual patterning and finished project look for my character than the nitty gritty details since I truly believe it's not remotely possible to be 100% accurate. 

I think what I'm aiming for is what you're accomplishing..  moderate h/a with the silhouette/style being h/a, details being whatever I can afford (or locate).  :)

Offline Kate XXXXXX

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Re: Machine - can it still be h/a?
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2008, 05:19:04 PM »
Wow, that is beautiful! Did you make that yourself? 

Lord, no!  That's an actual historical garment, constructed in approximately 1660!  It's quite a famous pair of stays, and is featured in  this V&A book by Avril Hart and Susan North, and is part of the V&A collection. 


The point is that the stitches are so even and so beautifully parallel in the boning channels, that without getting so close as to be inhaling the damned thing, you can hardly tell that it is hand rather than machine stitched!  Yes, I've been that close to it (as part of an exhibition at the museum).  It remains one of my seven wonders of the sewing world.  Fabulous thing.

Offline ADraeger

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Re: Machine - can it still be h/a?
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2008, 05:33:32 PM »
Wow, that is beautiful! Did you make that yourself? 

Lord, no!  That's an actual historical garment, constructed in approximately 1660!  It's quite a famous pair of stays, and is featured in  this V&A book by Avril Hart and Susan North, and is part of the V&A collection. 


The point is that the stitches are so even and so beautifully parallel in the boning channels, that without getting so close as to be inhaling the damned thing, you can hardly tell that it is hand rather than machine stitched!  Yes, I've been that close to it (as part of an exhibition at the museum).  It remains one of my seven wonders of the sewing world.  Fabulous thing.

This is supposed to be the point where you say, "Why, of course I did! Thank you!" ;) hahaha :)  Point taken and noted.... that piece is amazing.  I'm jealous you got to see it so close! :)  Wow... it's very..humbling..considering I'd be lucky to do even half as good with a machine. lol

Offline Kate XXXXXX

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Re: Machine - can it still be h/a?
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2008, 03:25:32 AM »
Same here, but it makes a point to aim for, and I smile every time I look at it.

Offline operafantomet

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Re: Machine - can it still be h/a?
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2008, 04:15:22 AM »
I agree with others. As long as no machine seams are visible, garbs look more historical. I usually do long seams on machine (especially longs seams in the bodice which will get a lot of pressure), but I do all binding and visible seams by hand (also trim attachment). It gives a nice finish.

I often play with the thought of making a garb as historical correct as possible - that means buying especially made natural fiber fabrics with a thread and weave similar to what was used in the Renaissance, natural dyed, whale bones for the bodice, hand braided trims etc. I love the thought. But I doubt I'll ever do it. First, the costs. Second, I don't think it would give me more pleasure than the quasi-historical dresses I'm already making. Third, I could never get it a 100% historical correct anyway. So... I do the stuff necessary to make it fairly historical (natural fibres, good colour shades, historical constructions etc), but as of now I'm not willing to "go all the way". And that includes not sewing everything by hand....

Offline RenRobin

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Re: Machine - can it still be h/a?
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2008, 07:54:11 AM »
Wow, that is beautiful! Did you make that yourself? 

Lord, no!  That's an actual historical garment, constructed in approximately 1660!  It's quite a famous pair of stays, and is featured in  this V&A book by Avril Hart and Susan North, and is part of the V&A collection. 


The point is that the stitches are so even and so beautifully parallel in the boning channels, that without getting so close as to be inhaling the damned thing, you can hardly tell that it is hand rather than machine stitched!  Yes, I've been that close to it (as part of an exhibition at the museum).  It remains one of my seven wonders of the sewing world.  Fabulous thing.

OMG!  Can you imagine how that person's hand felt....ouch!!!  I bellyache with just putting in a danged ol hem.
Loki-terr (in training)

Offline LadyElizabeth

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Re: Machine - can it still be h/a?
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2008, 09:30:55 AM »
So that corset is stunning, but looking at your pic of it, I'm wondering about the arm holes.  Is this a pic of the front or back?  Is it just an optical illusion, cause it seems the arms are not on the side per say...
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