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Author Topic: Chain Maille Question  (Read 9215 times)

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Offline Manwariel

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Chain Maille Question
« on: December 08, 2008, 02:41:52 PM »
I'm thinking about buying a chain maille shirt when I can afford it. The one I'm considering is $100 butted or $150 riveted. Is it worth spending $50 more for the riveted maille?

While I'm at it, have you found chain maille anywhere that's even cheaper?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2008, 05:12:26 PM by Manwariel »

Offline Monsignor de Beaumanoir

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Re: Chain Maille Question
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2008, 05:28:31 AM »
I know folks have had some issues with this company when it comes to other items, but a friend of mine ordered this and he got it with no problem. Must be a surplus issue.

I'd still call them before ordering.

http://www.realarmorofgod.com/store/html/Products/Armor/Medieval-Armor/Chainmail-Shirt-115.html

Offline Chris B

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Re: Chain Maille Question
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2008, 07:24:51 AM »
It really depends on what you use it for.  If you are looking for a more historically accurate maille, butted maille is not the way maille was made and it offers no real protection when compared to the riveted.  If you just want it as a costume, I would say the butted is fine.  In my opinion, if it is decent maille, for a small increase in price, why not get the riveted so that you have the option of actually using it or allowing someone else to use it in the future for more than just show?  Also, I think riveted maille is a little more impressive looking too.

Offline Manwariel

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Re: Chain Maille Question
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2008, 09:08:09 AM »
Okay, thanks.

Warrior Monk, I saw that, but it weighs 27 pounds, so I don't think I'd want to wear it for long. The one I'm looking at is this http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/generic/9080/ which weighs 12 pounds (it's made of anodized aluminum).
« Last Edit: December 10, 2008, 09:14:17 AM by Manwariel »

Offline Monsignor de Beaumanoir

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Re: Chain Maille Question
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2008, 09:22:23 AM »
I did not realize weight was an issue. There are some folks out there that knit clothing that looks like mail (faux mail?).

Or: http://www.buycostumes.com/Valiant-Knight-Adult-Costume/17267/ProductDetail.aspx

Offline Manwariel

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Re: Chain Maille Question
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2008, 01:17:59 PM »
I'm not really sure what 27 pounds feels like to wear around all day.

The knitted mail is interesting, but I'd rather have it made of metal. :) Thank you for the links, though.

Offline Chris B

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Re: Chain Maille Question
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2008, 07:29:55 AM »
The full weight mild steel or zinc coated steel weighing in at 27-30 lbs takes its toll.  I wear two different types of riveted maille with a Viking persona and a Templar persona.  I do not think you will be comfortable in the heavier version all day.  I wear a very heavy gambeson under my Templar maille to distribute the weight properly, and I am still soar after a full day in it.  I only wear two Kyrtle's under my viking zinc plated hauberk and it is heavy as hell.  I usually do not even get that soar carrying a 70 lb pack on trails all day.  Our bodies are just not broken in for wearing armor for extended times any more.  Now knowing that your going with aluminum maille, I would just get the cheaper maille and move on.  If it is just a costume anyways, it doesn't really matter.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 07:32:01 AM by Chris B »

Offline Sir LJ

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Re: Chain Maille Question
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2008, 10:29:56 AM »
I'm not really sure what 27 pounds feels like to wear around all day.

The knitted mail is interesting, but I'd rather have it made of metal. :) Thank you for the links, though.

Go aluminum riveted! Trust me on that!
Semper Fi,

Sir LJ

The Red Horseman / Marine'n M'Crack

Offline Manwariel

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Re: Chain Maille Question
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2008, 11:16:54 AM »
Thank you both for the input. :)

Offline Sir William Marcus

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Re: Chain Maille Question
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2008, 11:46:32 AM »
I'm thinking about buying a chain maille shirt when I can afford it. The one I'm considering is $100 butted or $150 riveted. Is it worth spending $50 more for the riveted maille?

Absolutely. If you decide on butted maile I can just about guarantee your going to eventually wish you spent the extra $50 and purchased riveted. For your purpose, coolness & comfort factor I strongly recommend the aluminum riveted.

VENI, VIDI, VELCRO! Spelling and grammatical errors are beyond my control, it's the way I'm wired.

Offline Monsignor de Beaumanoir

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Re: Chain Maille Question
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2008, 07:36:05 PM »
M’lady,

Having worn a variety of body armor both professionally and recreationally, I can assure you that the 27 lb weight of a mail shirt would wear differently, than that of a 27 lb book bag, that most of your age encounter in their studies at school.
The mail shirt is worn around the body, and the actual weight pulls down on one’s shoulders as it rides the body above your center of gravity. A book bag or backpack pulls back on one’s shoulders because it technically rides behind your center of gravity.
As I mentioned, when I was an Infantryman, we encouraged our lads to wear their packs high on the back above the center of gravity to decrease the physical strain, and make it more comfortable for wearing over long periods.
The bottom line is it’s up to you. Riveted aluminum would probably be in your best interest, for what it sounds like your looking for. Butted rings of any material have the tendency to separate during various periods of activities.

Best wishes, and Deus vult!

Offline Manwariel

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Re: Chain Maille Question
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2008, 08:27:28 AM »
Thank you, sir. I think I will go with the riveted aluminum when I can afford it.

Offline Macbain

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Re: Chain Maille Question
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2009, 02:37:13 AM »
Now i know i'm dredgeing up a very deceased horse (or thread if you prefer) but butted mail worked and still works GREAT. The overwhelming majority of maille from the twelth to the fifteenth century was butted maille and about fifty fifty in the sixteenth and was still frequently used throughout. Now considering how valuable wire was it pays to consider, why was so much chainmaile made butted when the amount of work to add a rivet was trivial compared to forging and rolling steel for wire? butted would take the majority of blows that riveted would and come out virtually with the same damage, the only large variance in strength was small diameter and peircing blows, such as arrows. I can provide some examples not nearly definitive but i cant find anything online to source better
YouTube - Machinwelded maille cut battleax
And also 9:20 through on dealiest warrior of this episode they do tests on BUTTED chainmail which display it's incredible strength Viking vs Samurai I hope i didnt come off too strong i'm just trying to dispel the misconception that butted mail is junk. Us Maillers are protective of our craft ~.o

Offline ALS

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Re: Chain Maille Question
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2009, 07:39:37 AM »
Quote
The overwhelming majority of maille from the twelth to the fifteenth century was butted maille and about fifty fifty in the sixteenth and was still frequently used throughout.

If you can post some substantiaition of this with a little more meat to it than the TV shows sighted i'd very much be interested to read them. You might want to run this idea through here http://www.erikds.com/viewforum.php?f=3 ( Erik D. Schmidt is generally acknowledged to be the worlds leading authority on maille armour ) and see what these folks think as well as here http://www.armourresearchsociety.org/ ( some serious experts in the field post on these boards ). If you can in fact back up what you've stated with a substantial body of meaningfull evidence it would completely change to way maille is viewed in the acedemic and curratorial world. Given the virtual non existance of any surviving European examples ( I had heard rumors of a single possibly butted shirt being excavated froma 10th century find in Eastern Europe but haven't seen any print documentation of it, if it exists it would be the only European example i've personally heard of ) or period written records ( funnery lists, armoury records ect.) the accepted idea is that riveted was the standard with occasional early examples ( some Roman ) of alternating riveted and solid/punched rings based on surviving European examples and documentation. If you can actually prove what you've stated it would be huge. I'd very much like to read what else you've got on this.

Offline Chris B

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Re: Chain Maille Question
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2009, 08:15:27 AM »
I would also like to see actual support for your claims.  I have never seen any examples of European butted maille being used in any time period.  Every documented case of maille found for the Vikings (since you are quoting The Deadliest Warrior) has been riveted. I wouldn't use any television program, least of all the deadliest warrior as a source for information.  Their episodes are full of errors and even the equipment used is wrong in many instances (see my post on the Dealiest Warrior Thread for examples).    

Here is an online link summarizing some information from viking finds.  It is just a quick search, and I realize there are better documented sources for finds of historical maille.  It is a start.

http://www.vikingsonline.org.uk/resources/authenticity/chainmail/index.htm

Another thought was for the you tube video.  The guy is testing an axe cut against butted maille on top of clothing and toilet paper.  Seriously, there is no resistance to the cut and that proves nothing.  The real issue of the effectiveness for maille should be a thrust as in a spear, sword tip, or knife.  Butted rings will separate much easier than a closed riveted piece of maille, and that is just simple physics.  I am open to any REAL documented proof of what you say, but highly doubt you are going to find much support for your argument.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2009, 08:40:25 AM by Chris B »

 

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