So I was wondering what you thought of ......

[Lady Christina de Pond]

it's bad idea I'm telling you it's not good.

[Julianne]

I dare you to call me "un-american" because of the thoughts that I am going to write herein.

I've given.  My family has given and paid the ultimate sacrifice to protecting all that we find just in this country.  I have a right to speak my mind and let me voice not only be heard but be respected.

So don't you dare think for one second that because I think differently from you and I'll vehemently fight for my directlon and continue to support my way that makes me "un-american'...
I was brought up and sacrificed my family directly and know that my soldiers are fighting and dying today to support the idea of "I'll fight for your right...."

As an American of the United States I know that all people living today in the United States..illegal, old, young, aged, dying beyond repair, poor, rich, race unidentified, sex unidentified, have a right to be taken care of.

I'm of the old school that says and believes that if you CHOSE to be a doctor or nurse or teacher or fireman or policeman or soldier you have chosen to HELP people.
To save and to provide and to sacrifice because you chose to do so.


Healthcare....I'd challenge any of you to deal with the VA system.  Any of you, Republicans or Democrats alike...the conditions are abysmal.  For me, I have to judge my current status as a civilian the same as for the aformentioned.  And it's really not very attractive....no wonder.


Just cause you are poor does'nt mean you shoud lose your leg when the insurance pays to keep the insured persons leg.

This is an abomination....and if you think for one second it doesn't happen your are being naive, lied to and stupid.

[Noble Dreg]

"Feb 14, 2006 ... Forbes magazine reports that William W. McGuire, CEO of UnitedHealth Group) received compensation of $124.8 million in 2005".

"Dollar Bill" has made lots of news with cash-and-stock paydays that have topped $100 million in recent years -- and he's still sitting atop stock options valued at $1.6 billion".



Look it up, there was more paid out in other years.  One company, one CEO.  I do not fear government waste...seems private business has a corner on the market.  

I hear you Julianne, and respect you.  The truly remarkable thing about this country is every single American has the right to be heard, regardless of service, race, sex, creed, and more...That's what we fought for.  What a fantastic place to live.

And kudos to all who managed to keep it cool.

[Julianne]

Thank you ND.

I'm very passionate about health care as most of us here but I fail to see the compassion.  Because we all believe that everyone has that right to such apparently that is not the case.  I've learned that if you aren't "American" you just die if you get sick.  We just don't all believe in the same way, apparently in how the right to happiness is meted out.

I have say strongly that you can't be my bretheren without believing that everyone has the same right to the same health care...based on the ability to pay or sometimes no ability to pay.   I don't always want to give to the indigent but under the US Bill of Rights they are afforded the same rights as I am.  If you are going to put people in jail, in a mental ward, in a foster home, in any socialized facility because they become the dregs of society then you have an OBLIGATION TO CARE FOR THEM FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES.   Otherwise, in the case of prisoners...then you believe in captial punishment for those that can't be rehabilitated.
The best part of being a righteous born and bred 'merican is knowing the difference between humanity and ideaolgy.

And if you can't pay, like prison inmates, or if you can't pay because you are illegal in this country, or if  you are a child, or if you live off medicare or medicaid, or just because you live off the streets and nobody cares about you,....

....you get to keep your leg through the same medicine that would have amputated it if you were poor.

The reality is....if my husband divorces me..and I'm living on the edge of poverty which would be the case....if I get an infection in my leg...my leg is off.

If I get an infection today...I get surgery...and my leg is saved.

That's just wrong.

[Xanthenes The Unbalanced]

Government run system like Canada's, and most Europeans have work fine as long as all that is needed is standard noncritical, care.  Regular check up that are scheduled months in advance,  getting flu shots,   etc.  Its when a person needs emergence or critical care fast that they fall apart.  That is why the cancer  and heart attack survival rates is so much lower there than in the USA.   Both those require fast response and one thing the government is never good at is fast response.  

Unfortunately, that just doesn't stand up well to statistical evaluation.

http://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/20080716/cancer-survival-rates-vary-by-country

"Study Shows U.S., Japan, and France Have Highest Cancer Survival Rates"

"In Canada and Australia, survival was also high for most cancers."

Four of the the top five countries have single payer systems.

[maelstrom0370]

Oh puh-leeze!! You and all your fancy-shmancy facts and figures! Whatever! 

[Julianne]

Oriental races have the lowest rate of Cancer.
Oriental races have the highest level of cigarette smokers.

Western Europeans have a low rate of born Diabetes
American Indians have a high rate of born  Diabetes.

Western Europeans have a high rate of sugar intake
American Indians have the highest rate of fat and intake.

Western Europeans have an infant mortality rate 3 times lower then the U.S.



Go with your thoughts.

[Julianne]

Oh puh-leeze!! You and all your fancy-shmancy facts and figures! Whatever!  

fancy-shmancy?...really?

could quite possibly save your effin life one day...*frown*....and maybe when you are old and grey and discarded and useless..


oh ....oh .....ahem...my apologies...sometimes I get just a bit too emotional about these type of subjects...
ahem.

all's well.

continue with the mundane

[maelstrom0370]

Oh puh-leeze!! You and all your fancy-shmancy facts and figures! Whatever! 

fancy-shmancy?...really?

could quite possibly save your effin life one day...*frown*....and maybe when you are old and grey and discarded and useless..

Whoa, whoa, whoa! I knew I should have quoted Xanthenes' post! He and I have been friends since we were kids. He's always been great in an argument because he researches things and knows what he's talking about before he gets started. I just like to give him a little shine once in awhile. Sorry if my comment offended you.

[RSLeask]

Julianne, your look at Health Care is exactly the way it should be.  I stress, should be, because like everything else in society today, it all comes down to the almighty dollar.  Green makes right, and I don't care who it is, that's just how we operate.  Which is truly unfortunate.  It should be that care provision is given to all.  It's the Hippocratic Oath, not the Hypocrite Oath.

There's one point that I could get into you with, and that's the subject of illegals... wait, I'm sorry... Unrecognized Americans (gotta be PC these days).   I'd wager that of anyone else, they could actually afford better health care than most average American, but simply don't because they can't be in the system.  Or they'll get booted (unless the Wicked Witch of the Hill gets her way).  Now, I don't necessarily disagree with you on the point that, if they need treatment, they should get it, regardless.  I'm just of the mind that if they get treatment, their release paper should be stapled to the deportation pass, but that's a different debate entirely.

Make no mistake, I do think that health care should be afforded, and affordable, to everyone.  I also believe that those that can, should be able to have added benefits to their health care, instead of reliance on a government-run system.  Keep the municipal and the private practice separate.  Let us choose which we'd prefer.  Just my two cents.

[Julianne]

Gentles,  A lot of my thinking on this subject has also been subjugated in a more recent topic in another thread.

Most qualified insured Americans don't take advantage of the health care afforded them.

What most "tax-paying, born-bred 'merican", god-fearing" republican/democrat citizens don't even realize is what is out there for them.

I have no illusions about capitalism and America.   We have propogated this idea and in the end as a wage earner...I love it.

I also remember a time ...a time in my life when teachers, nurses, fireman were the heroes.

A Doctor's word was epiphany...and he or her would take a chicken as payment.
It was also the family doctor that assured us that my mother would be "just fine".


Times change...Our constitution allows this...change with it or begone

[Xanthenes The Unbalanced]

Oh puh-leeze!! You and all your fancy-shmancy facts and figures! Whatever! 

fancy-shmancy?...really?

could quite possibly save your effin life one day...*frown*....and maybe when you are old and grey and discarded and useless..

Whoa, whoa, whoa! I knew I should have quoted Xanthenes' post! He and I have been friends since we were kids. He's always been great in an argument because he researches things and knows what he's talking about before he gets started. I just like to give him a little shine once in awhile. Sorry if my comment offended you.

Do I know you, sir?!?!?!?

[Dracconia]

I would just like to say thank you to everyone who has posted here for keeping it so calm and polite. I am so grateful that so many of us have been able to come together, practice freedom of speech and respect. I know I am learning alot and will post more on my opinons on the topic once I have gathered one based on all this new information. As the one who started the topic, once again, thank you for being polite and allowing others their thoughts and views!

Love you all!

Dracconia

[Lady Nicolette]

I'm for big, major changes in healthcare in our country, just for the record.  And I think it should include a healthy dose of care for those with mental illnesses and disabilities. 

I think that Xanthenes brought home an important point about the cost of medical insurance for small businesses and one of which many people are just plain unaware, (unless, of course, you're the owner of a small business).  Many of the huge household name companies in our country started as small, entreprenuerial enterprises long before these kinds of costs burgeoned...What small companies with wonderful ideas that could bring a bright future to our country are being thwarted by the high cost of staying in operation and providing healthcare for the people who make up their smaller teams? 

[Anna Iram]

I've been reading what I can on the subject. You all have made me put my thinking cap on!

Agreed Nicki. I wonder what the cost difference would be for small businesses under thenew plan as compared with what is available now.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124759535535340189.html

An excerpt:

"Under the House measure, employers with payrolls exceeding $400,000 a year would have to provide health insurance or pay the 8% penalty. Employers with payrolls between $250,000 and $400,000 a year would pay a smaller penalty, and those less than $250,000 would be exempt. Certain small firms would get tax credits to help buy coverage."

The article goes on to say the average small business with between five and nine workers had a payroll of around $375,000. This was in 2006. Aprox 1 million small businesses fell into this category.

For myself, I'm uncomfortable with the idea that I'd be grandfathered in with my current poilicy, assuming the Govt. can't lure my company to do away with our current plan and adopt theirs for a tax break or some such incentive program, but should I cange jobs, I'd then be forced to join the Govt program regardles of there being private companies I'd prefer to join.

Does anyone know what voice the voters have in this? I'm not terribly political. Is there an avenue someone can recommend to have our voices heard?