Question about Pleats

[Elennare]

This question has to do with the costume I'm going to make for Halloween, so I hope it's allowed here.  Seems like the best place, though, as this is where all the people who know about pleats hang out. 



How does one get pleats to drape like that (on the under "skirt")?  Is it just diagonal pleating, or is there some other trick to it?  They look like they might be a bit curved, and I have no idea if that's even possible.  I've not worked with pleats before, so I don't really know how they work.

If no one has any idea, or it's not actually possible to make it look like that, I will just make normal hakama for it (my plan right now is to make a hakama and add a panel to drape like shown above across the front).  They draw like 3 different versions of the underlayer during the course of the show this costume is in, so it's a bit hard to tell what, exactly, she's supposed to be wearing.  Standing still, it looks like the picture above.  Moving, it's a hakama.  And randomly, throughout the show, it's just a plain skirt.  Argh!

[Lady Rebecca]

Could it be a box pleat in the center, with knife pleats on either side of it? I feel like that might look awkward at the top, but it would probably create the right lines... And I don't think they're curved - it just looks like the skirt is blowing in the wind. Though I could be totally wrong, since it seems like it's almost starting from the right hip.

[isabelladangelo]

Since it's a cartoon, it could be that the animators just want to show "swift motion".  :-)

However, if you want to achieve the look, I'd go with a pair of "wrap pants" that have a skirt like panel in the front.  Double the panel and have it tie at the hip.  Flip the top one back and pin or sew it to the leg.  Do the same with the underpanel but leaving it just enough to keep the illusion of a skirt. 

Does that make sense?

[gem]

Well, first, I agree with Isabella. You're dealing with a less-than-detailed illustration of a garment that doesn't exist IRL, so you can't really extrapolate.

That said, curved/odd seams are not that unusual in mundane skirts, so I think you could definitely work with that (they don't look like pleats to me, but see above). You'll get extra movement with any panels sewn on the bias.

I'm going to throw a bunch of patterns with unusual seams at you, just to give you an idea of different constructions:
http://voguepatterns.mccall.com/v8561-products-9770.php?page_id=263
http://voguepatterns.mccall.com/v8499-products-8876.php?page_id=263
http://voguepatterns.mccall.com/v8296-products-6718.php?page_id=263
http://voguepatterns.mccall.com/v1188-products-11096.php?page_id=862 (this is ghastly, but it harkens back to Isabella's suggestion, so I'm including it!)
OMG, they have TWO of them!!  http://voguepatterns.mccall.com/v1142-products-10660.php?page_id=862
http://voguepatterns.mccall.com/v2971-products-8323.php?page_id=862
http://mccallpattern.mccall.com/m5056-products-4725.php?page_id=113
http://mccallpattern.mccall.com/m6126-products-11140.php?page_id=113
http://butterick.mccall.com/b4803-products-6099.php?page_id=367
http://butterick.mccall.com/b3134-products-143.php?page_id=367 (This one actually looks the most promising, in terms of coming close to the shape of your inspiration piece)
http://butterick.mccall.com/b5421-products-10526.php?page_id=367 (this isn't bad, either, plus it has a seam right where you want it)

[Elennare]

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

It is a cartoon, and the illustrators apparently couldn't quite make up their minds about what exactly she's wearing (which is frustrating for trying to copy it ).

The picture above, she's actually standing still.  In most of the movement shots, she appears to be wearing hakama (Japanese pants, similar to wrap pants, with deep pleats in them).  When she stands still, it goes back to the above - not quite hakama. 

(except, trying to find a picture of her moving, I just found this clip from the second time the character is in the show: http://sokkagetsnorespect.com/wp-content/uploads/anim/book2/216/suki_azula_fight_part5_large.gif  Now, it looks like a skirt with pleats in the middle!  This is different from the first time she shows up, which is what I have the dvd of)  Here's the best motion shot I can come up with right now.  I might try to put my dvd in my computer and get a screenshot tonight.


I know it doesn't really look like it the picture I posted before, but when they draw the characters moving, there is no doubt that it's pleats.

Isabella, that was pretty much what I had in mind to do - pants with a panel across the front for the skirt look.  Just folding over the panels is more likely to get the right look than pleats, you think?  That would get the curve to it, wouldn't it?  CAN you actually do that with pleats?

Also, for reference, hakama:

[redkimba]

Based on the rest of her outfit, the hakama pants would be more in line and look proper  (IMHO).

[Butch]

If you wanted that look, why not sew a curved diagonal seam with a cuff along that line?  Sort of like finishing the bottoms of trousers with a cuff instead of a straight hem.

I'm not sure hakama would give you the right look.  She appears to be wearing a skirt, and not hakama; hakama do not drape like that when you move (yes, I would know).  BUT, hakama would give an authentic Japanese warrior look to your costume!  Here's a link to a blue set for $35 (pretty cheap for hakama).
http://www.e-bogu.com/High_Quality_Light_weight_100_Cotton_Hakama_p/tak-ken-hak-hqlitecot-navy-all.htm
Good luck!

[isabelladangelo]

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

It is a cartoon, and the illustrators apparently couldn't quite make up their minds about what exactly she's wearing (which is frustrating for trying to copy it ).

The picture above, she's actually standing still.  In most of the movement shots, she appears to be wearing hakama (Japanese pants, similar to wrap pants, with deep pleats in them).  When she stands still, it goes back to the above - not quite hakama. 

(except, trying to find a picture of her moving, I just found this clip from the second time the character is in the show: http://sokkagetsnorespect.com/wp-content/uploads/anim/book2/216/suki_azula_fight_part5_large.gif  Now, it looks like a skirt with pleats in the middle!  This is different from the first time she shows up, which is what I have the dvd of)  Here's the best motion shot I can come up with right now.  I might try to put my dvd in my computer and get a screenshot tonight.


I know it doesn't really look like it the picture I posted before, but when they draw the characters moving, there is no doubt that it's pleats.

Isabella, that was pretty much what I had in mind to do - pants with a panel across the front for the skirt look.  Just folding over the panels is more likely to get the right look than pleats, you think?  That would get the curve to it, wouldn't it?  CAN you actually do that with pleats?

Also, for reference, hakama:

Don't worry.  I think most people here know what a hakama is and, if they don't, google is always your friend.  Bing too.   

Anyway, if you scroll down the kozo wrap pants on http://dogstar.com.au/current/archives/dogstar-summer-08/ , that's what I'm thinking. 

[LordPaulet]

Organ pleats? Google it and there is a guy who did organ pleats for his tudor style skirts on his doublet. If they were sewn diagonally i could see them working

[gem]

Ok, thanks for that better image.

You should be able to sew "curved" pleats, although I'm not sure you could sew big pleats like that to fall diagonally, without somehow securing the bottom edges. Gravity would pull them straight down and distort the line.

Sometimes pleats have seams in them, in order to coax the garment into more elaborate folds than you can get with just a straight length of fabric. As an example, the fabulous pleats at the back of 18th century jackets (like the famous period justaucorps pattern), or in a modern example, this 2009 release from Vogue (pattern and finished jacket). Neither of those is what you're trying to do, but I thought it might be helpful to look at some other pleat construction to start wrapping your brain around how those different folds are achieved.

But this skirt pattern from my OP shows a variety of angled godets and gores and inserts, which might be useful to look at:
http://mccallpattern.mccall.com/m5056-products-4725.php?page_id=113

If you could figure out the shape and depth of the pattern pieces you'd need to get the pleats you want, and then sew them on an angle like they're shown in the McCall's pattern, you might be able to come close to what you're trying to do.

Good luck!

[Jessi]

My family loves that show. I always thought that was hakama. I did not know the name before. Now I will be forced to watch it tonight just to analyze the costumes! 

[gem]

Ok, not sure how helpful this is, but the new Northstyle catalogue arrived yesterday, and I found myself scrutinizing all the pleated skirts!  This one particularly caught my eye:



Those are large box pleats (the hakama you posted is knife pleated), and there doesn't appear to be a waist seam to that dress, so I'm not sure what the pattern pieces look like... but see how they appear to curve as the hem of the dress swings a little?  I don't know how that helps with having the pleats curve *standing still,* but it might be one more piece to the puzzle!