TRF Campgrounds - constructive input

[Merlin the Elder]

The clear solution is a maximum sound pressure level. It can be measured, and there can be an acceptable SPL established to be in compliance. Noise level is not a pet peeve, it is a matter of comfort, just as much as security and safety. Not feeling secure? Not going to be comfortable...

[Barret]

I do believe generators are somewhat of an issue, not so much because of the generators themselves as much as what they bring with them.  Anyone that was camped down around row 0 this last weekend will know what I am talking about when I say that when I go camping at fair, listening to someone play techno and hiphop music through a PA system complete with soundboard until 1 in the morning is not what I had in mind.  Nor is listening to a wedding party sing Karaoke till 1 AM.  Beyond this sort of what I consider to be obnoxious behavior, the simple fact remains that, while your generator might not sound loud to you in your camper, its much louder coming through my thin tent walls, but that isn't so much a complaint because I feel that a lot of the RV generator users are pretty good about turning them off after they have charged their batteries etc.

I definitely feel that further segregation of the campground might be in order.  They already have the quiet children's camping area, but I don't have kids, nor do I really want to be around them terribly, an I have been known to use expletives at times (sometimes loudly) and I don't want to impose on the family campers just to get away from the techno going on in the main campground.  So a simple, no generators section, or even a no generators running after say 10:30 or  11 PM section, would suite my needs nicely.  I really wish that we could just implement a general "No weed puller-hattery rule" as there are always people who use generators, or even amplified music etc. appropriately and don't bother people and it is too bad that those folks have to suffer the consequences brought on by other people's bad behavior, but sometimes sacrifices must be made to preserve what we love about camping at fair.

Just my two cents.
-Barret

[Riot]

I'm just putting this out there, especially since we went and spent the extra money on a invertor generator just so it was quieter (has even been told it was better white noise then drums as it hazed them out when even the drums were a bit too loud). If 1) we were unable to camp with friends because the weekends we bring the camper we have our generator 2) The camper also serves as small rope light lighting area for our camp the last two years(with the burn ban it been nice), nothing bright but allows us to see what we are doing when cooking or what have you, we also leave them on all night as a source of security. 3) allows cooking in the oven or microwave 4) Warms people when they are so cold they can't stop shriving for hours on end (which came in real handy Halloween weekend let me tell you I was consistently asked or I told people to go sit in the camper until they warm up) 5) or even gives people last minute places to sleep. All of this won't take place just because I want to with my fairemily (which is part of what faire is all about , is it not?) and I now can't bring my camper because what good is spending the close to $200 bucks in JUST gas to tow it down there if I can't use the heater now at all, no extra lighting, no microwave, etc.  Then I will just choose to stop going to faire at TRF (which means because we only maybe day trip Sherwood one weekend, I might only get to see friends for a few hours a day when we go to Scarby). I know a lot of others that feel the same way.

[Laird Fraser of Lovatt]

Yeah!  What she said!  

*well said, Riot*

Laird Nasty & I took steps to reduce the sound our life saving power source by half arse enclosing it to least reflect the noise towards the woods.  Before someone even thinks about opening their piehole... we were in tents ourselves and yes, we ran our generator all night, Saturday, AHE.  Last weekend would've been a wonderful weekend to camp but AHE was not.  What was just proposed was censoring the many because of a few.  Uhhhh, the last time i checked, 01:00 isn't all that late when it comes to the campgrounds... if they killed the noise at 1am, think of yourself as lucky.  I've been entertained a lot later than that.  Try diplomacy next time.

[Bonny Pearl]

I agree with Riot and Fraser.  I've always been of the thought that segregation is not what camp is about.  The campground is massive and there is plenty of room for everyone to find spots that are to his/her personal taste.  Music can be just as loud coming from a car stereo. 

[angusmacinnes]

we camped this weekend and I dont recall any generators being overly loud.  Now a few peeps being rowdy at 3 am wasn't all that plesant but hey it is the campgrounds and we know what to expect.  I would really hate to see any sort of changes.  The FD and PD have done a really good job on those times I have camped there. 

[*Teach*]

I camped at row 0 also and the music and generators weren't loud to me at all. Friday night we were up fairly late and I could hear the music but didn't think it was very loud. Saturday night I went to bed a bit earlier than normal and with all the other noises of the campgrounds the music was no big deal then either.
We plan to be getting ourselves a camper and generator in the next couple of years ourselves mainly for TRF. I will definitely be getting one of the quieter generators but the idea that I can't have one at faire because of the actions of a few is just not right.

*having a camper will also give me more room for rum*

[eloquentXI]

Punishing many for the actions of the few isn't right and I pray isn't the action that is taken.

Super loud generators that plan on being ran all night, should be asked to move at their own discretion to a marked area somewhere within the campgrounds.

People having generators has been the saving grace for more than one person, me included on very cold weekends or a few times when I needed to step away from everything in lue of certain circumstances.

And if it comes down to it, keep an eye on where you are camping. If you get there and see somebody with a big trailer, go ask them, "Hi, do you have a generator? What kind of generator is it? How loud is it? Do you plan on running it all night?"

Depending on the answer you get, then it will determine whether or not this will be the right area for you to set up your tent.


Roman Bacchanal, we had a group set up on Row 0 right behind us that had huge speakers and a screen, and for awhile there, they played super loud music. We politely went and asked them if they could turn it down They were very nice, we were lucky they were reasonable, and everyone went about having a good time. I know not everybody has this luck.

[SirRichardBear]

this last weekend was fine the few generators that were running were real quiet and if they were all like that there wouldn't be a problem.  But a few are using 10 and 15 year old generators which have no gotten regular maintance and even inside a pop up which has much heaver construction than most tents they are insanely loud.  or people leave them inside the bed of their trucks which act as sound boxes making a loud generator even louder.  Since I set up early normally around noon can really ask if the person around has a noisy gen they are going run all night.  Mostly what happens is I go on walk about and come back to find some has set up next to me and put their generator right behind me I suppost I could tear everything down and spend a couple three hours moving but that really isn't a very ideal solution.   I've thought of camping in the family section but the walk to fair is insane and I'd miss camping with my friends and being able to go walk about.  I've started thinking of a hard side camper or a small RV not because I want mirowave oven, or a TV or stero system or all the other modern stuff I'm trying to get away from at faire camping but because the noise insolation is so much better.  I understand the complexity of the situation and that there is no ideal solutions that is going to please everyone. and saddy common sense and courtesy seems to be serious lacking in some people. 

[dreamwalker]

Perhaps not a generator ban but how old & loud they are? The point of camping is to remove barriers between people; a house divided against itself cannot stand. I think cops just need to not let ravers in at all, simply deny them access, ban the speakers they bring in... As a lady that is most likely going to be tent camping solo starting at Sherwood it's important to feel secure, safe and comfortable. When that isn''t happening peopel aren't having a good time and thats the point right?

[Rani Zemirah]

The only way you could know if someone was bringing in those types of speakers and sound system in advance is to do a vehicle search... and that's just not happening.  Not with me, anyway...  It's not even the police who determine who gets in and who doesn't, it's TRF security.  I'm not having them search my vehicle, either.  That would be taking away one of my constitutional rights. and it's JUST NOT HAPPENING...  Besides the indignity of it, can you imagine the expense of having that kind of manpower on hand, to go through EVERY vehicle that comes through those gates, and the time it would take to get everyone through the line???  Sorry... absolutely NOT a practical suggestion!!! 

[SirRichardBear]

Maybe some rule on the size of speakers?  Hand held OK or self powered OK but nothing that is larger or powered from a generator.

[Merlin the Elder]

I'll further explain something I mentioned earlier...

There are instruments...not real expensive...that measure sound pressure level. That means, it measures how loud something is.  The management could set standards as to how loud a generator can be, measured from a specific distance from said unit. If it's out of spec, it must be shut down at a specified time. The same can be done for speakers.

If the specifications are clear, they can be enforced, and can be enforced equitably. Since sound pressure level can be MEASURED, it can be regulated. There does not have to be any search and seizure, which would be the constitutional right of the property owners, if they so specify as a condition of use of their property.  Yes, it would totally suck, but it would be within their rights ( it would also drive away business).

You cannot make the rules arbitrary. One cop might say it's too loud, the next might say it's fine. It has to be measured, if you are going to make such a rule. It's actually a very simple solution.

[Riot]

If there is a ban of speaker, then the unqueenly will be no more as they use speaker for their announcing..  I'm not griping on this one, I'm just trying to show that us we all want certain changes, but certain changes might take away from some of the events we love.

[KiltedPrivateer]

The wise wizard makes good points.

Unqueenly is an event that only lasts an hour or two.  It is not an all night long party that can be heard across the entire camp.  Most stock car stereos can't be heard across the grounds either.

I also don't vote for extra segregation.

Time limits and volume limits should be an acceptable compromise.