camping question for long-term clan members

[Merlin the Elder]

... I do have a tendency towards violence when shocked out of sleep. So its safer for all around if I don't camp.

Put you and Nimue together (she's the same way) and we could control the entire camp grounds! 

[Rani Zemirah]

There is always noise in the campgrounds in the morning, whether it's from mead horns or someone blasting the Dropkick Murphy's on their car stereo at 7am.  We camp in one of the quieter sections of the general grounds, but the sounds are still there.  There has never been anything particularly shocking about it, since the venue is, after all, mostly a party venue.  Particularly on the big 3 weekends.  Mead horns create a lovely music... they are not like obnoxious alarm clocks, but more like an extended musical note borne on the breeze, reminiscent of the very era we are all there to celebrate and emulate.  I can't really imagine a much nicer way to awaken, actually.  I'm not quite as fond of shouting, but I'm guessing it's not everyone in your camp getting together to scream at the top of their lungs in the hopes of waking the rest of the campgrounds, correct? 

It seems that most everyone here is intent on turning this into something it may actually not be... and, if you haven't experienced it then how can you judge it?  Have any of you, personally, been woken up by this clan?  If not, then how invasive can it really be? 

It's really beginning to sound like a bunch of cantankerous old folks telling the kids to "get off my lawn!!!"...

[Rani Zemirah]

It does seem, though, that if you are not interested in being around any noise then you would choose to camp in a quieter area of the grounds, and not in "party central", which would seem to be the area that was mentioned (if it's on "the hill" then it IS the central party area)... just as I will not be camping next door to the "Naked" camp with my 12 y/o daughter...

Even though there are rules to keep the general public from coming in to camp, and there ARE now rules stating that everyone must have a ticket, and NOT just a single ticket per car load, it is still a place where a majority of the people come to party, whatever form that party takes.  Faire just happens to be one PART of their party... but different people celebrate in different ways, and anyone who tries to decree that THEIR way is the ONLY acceptable way is most likely going to alienate just about everyone else around them.  There is no single right way OR wrong way... and as long as everyone is following the "rules" as laid out by management then there isn't really much anyone can do to change a particular behavior... they can only choose to remove themselves from the area, and find somewhere more conducive to their own idea of what makes for a good party. 

Personally, I have never had a problem with others yelling out "HUZZAH!!!"... either in the campgrounds OR in Faire... and I generally echo the sentiment. 

[xed]

It does seem, though, that if you are not interested in being around any noise then you would choose to camp in a quieter area of the grounds, and not in "party central", which would seem to be the area that was mentioned (if it's on "the hill" then it IS the central party area)... just as I will not be camping next door to the "Naked" camp with my 12 y/o daughter...

We are DEEP in normal camping.  We intentionally chose a spot far, far away from quiet camping, and have moved farther since the campgrounds have expanded.

Personally, I have never had a problem with others yelling out "HUZZAH!!!"... either in the campgrounds OR in Faire... and I generally echo the sentiment.

I honestly thought that this was the general consensus.  Who'da thunk it?

[xed]

With all the talk of thugs, theives, etc., I believe we're getting a worse name than we ever would've if I had just kept my mouth shut and never said anything.
Sorry about that.

While we're on the subject, though, perhaps your talk about thinking that what we experience/want to experience is the norm goes both ways.  I know for a fact we aren't the only camp (or clan, for that matter) who goes out to party, being that there's so much buzz about that sort of thing exactly.

With that being said, I'm done here.  I never intended to start a thread to bicker with any of you, or which relates my group of campers/friends to theives and thugs.
I'll see you all next season, hope you have a great year.

[Rani Zemirah]

It does seem, though, that if you are not interested in being around any noise then you would choose to camp in a quieter area of the grounds, and not in "party central", which would seem to be the area that was mentioned (if it's on "the hill" then it IS the central party area)... just as I will not be camping next door to the "Naked" camp with my 12 y/o daughter...

We are DEEP in normal camping.  We intentionally chose a spot far, far away from quiet camping, and have moved farther since the campgrounds have expanded.

Personally, I have never had a problem with others yelling out "HUZZAH!!!"... either in the campgrounds OR in Faire... and I generally echo the sentiment.

I honestly thought that this was the general consensus.  Who'da thunk it?

I'm wondering if some of the other posters here thought that maybe you were just yelling EVERYTHING, instead of this one oh-so-appropriate show of vocal enthusiasm?  And maybe they were under the impression that you were, for some reason, gathering the entire clan to yell it out together, as a way of waking OTHER camps, instead of just a spontaneous shout now and then, echoed, no doubt, by other nearby campers who are also excited to be there?  And perhaps the mead horn reference was mistaken for some other type of horn, perhaps amplified, and not the lovely viking horns that are sold in so many shops throughout the lanes of every Faire? 

It can be all too easy to arrive at conclusions that seem to be supported by the "evidence" that one chooses to focus on... while ignoring anything that supports any other scenario.  I find that it is generally a good idea to gather a bit more information before making a leap that might be difficult to backtrack from...   

I am personally a bit disappointed at the whole "villagers with pitchforks and torches" mentality that seems to be emerging here!  I can tell when someone is being ganged up on, and I see it happening right here.  Xed never said anything at all about being confrontational with anyone at all... and in fact, related a tale about another camp/clan retaliating in a very passive/aggressive manner to something they didn't like, instead of asking nicely for a small concession... or instead of heeding the information that their new camping spot choice was, indeed, in the middle of an area that DOES get loud, from MANY sources... and has been in the past. 

I don't recall any of this type of lambasting being handed out when the Naked Camp was stating that it WOULD be living up to it's namesake, and anyone who didn't like it could find another place to camp... or any of the OTHER adult themed camps, for that matter... so apparently I, with my 12 year old daughter, would be expected to either put up with it, or MOVE... but that only holds true for people who don't like what they SEE... and not for those who don't care for what the HEAR?!? 

Since when did such a clearly double standard take such deep root in this forum?  Do as I say, and not as I do?  I don't think so...

[KeeperoftheBar]

Rani love, I don't think we are being "villagers with pitchforks" but rather having a civil discourse with each side expressing their opinions.  I certainly meant no disrespect nor would I want to prohibit Xed from having fun.  A nice horn blowing in the distance and a spontaneous "HAZZAH" certainly convey the feeling that we all seek.  However, from his inital description it sounds like Xed's group is less spontaneous and more orchastrated in their morning ritual.  Possibly I jump to conclusions that aren't warranted.

Personally, I love the quiet of camp in the morning, with the crispness of the air and the sounds of birds in the trees.  Being aware that I am up and about before a fair percentage of the campground, I try to minimize the noise I make.  This is the way I was raised and as I am getting older I have trouble comprehending any other attitude.  I am not making judgements on the correctness of anyone's actions.  I live the way I like, trying to avoid imposing on others as much as possible, rejoicing when meeting others of like mind and tolerating those of different mind. 

Xed, I hope next year we can meet, hoist a few ales and discuss weighty issues (like if Adam & Eve had belly buttons and if so, why?)

[Hector_]

Is it October 9th 2014 yet?  I need to go stake my claim for Clan Destiny!!

Xed, we try to camp just down the road from you.  Saw you setup at that location Opening Weekend, but also saw NaughtyHam and others throughout other weekends.

(This also goes for BarbarianQueen's question on etiquette) 
And while I have arrived late to see my preferred location taken, and we have definitely been encroached by others, we definitely try to be vocal about things, both good and bad.  "Hey, can you guys keep it down, my buddy's still asleep."  "Hey, can you guys go around this way to your tent so you won't be bumping into her new car."  or simply, "Hey Mr Officer, these guys are obviously drunk, they have been tripping on our tent, are being belligerent. Could you please just keep an eye on them since we would hate to see an altercation develop."  We have also made good friends of polite neighbors and invited them to let us know when they are coming so we can make room for them to camp next to us. 

Why isnt the opening time set?  I dont know.  I have been #17 Barbarian weekend, #45 Opening, and #35 Hallow's Eve, and my only comment is "Darnit!  I wish I had snuck out of work sooner!!"  But I am very fortunate to be able to take sick and personal days during TRF season (my boss is a fan). 

But to answer your original questions:
"How do You claim and keep your camping spots?"
I or a clan member gets to campgrounds as early as possible before Friday at noon.  Set up as many of others' tents, place others' groundcloths where their tent will lay etc.  Sometimes that requires the hardship and sacrifice of camping on Thursday and enjoying the company in merriment of other clans.  After enough time (and looking at LadyJessica's map) we try to respect each other's established claims.  But even that doesnt guarantee that a newbie will jumbp right in.

I believe I answered on encroachment, but I also practice the Golden Rule, treat others as you would like to be treated.  Sometimes I prefer to sleep in than go to Opening Cannon, but I won't lie and say I haven't answered someone else's horn call just after Cannon.

And with that I will say that I believe you are more bothered than you should be. 

I hope I answered your questions.

~Lord Hector_

[Bonny Pearl]

I don't expect camp to be a hotel where I can expect to get an uninterupted nights rest.  Even in Quiet Camp it can't be completely guaranteed with people getting lost, wandering, etc.  Heck the Steel Dragon blasting its horn will wake everyone as it goes by in the dark hours.

I usually wake up when the light starts coming through the tent or a bit before then.  I use Cannon as my alarm clock to get ready lol.  It's a long day inside faire so I try to pace myself.  Mimosas help with that!

[BarbarianQueen]

I don't recall any of this type of lambasting being handed out when the Naked Camp was stating that it WOULD be living up to it's namesake, and anyone who didn't like it could find another place to camp...

A bit of a strong statement.  I believe what I typed was -

Rest assured, Camp Naked Knights and Disrobed Damsels will be tucked away in a quiet corner somewhere in the old or new camp, with good screening and warnings, far from impressionable young eyes, and, like Shangri La, the only way to find  it will be through sheer luck, help from the Barbarian God's, or if the Barbarian Queen smiles upon you and imparts the secret directions...   

and

I can tell you one thing- with a group of impressionable 20 year olds sharing our front living area, Camp NK&DD did NOT live up to it's name   (well, because of that and the frigid weather Friday Night).

- Just to set the record straight.

Lets' just put the cards on the table - what we're talking about here are two questions -
1. Is the "loud Camping area" a place where partial-anarchy is acceptable?  Ie. is no activity "off limits" other than the concrete rules of the camping brochure?
2. Secondly, if there are unwritten understandings about activities not expressly stated, then are there some traditions that are deemed more acceptable than others?

Of course, if the answer to #1 is "no", and #2 "Yes", then a whole host of other questions pop up.

I, for one, would vote for anarchy! 
Like most of you, I come to TRF camping to get away from rules, 21st century societal constraints, and the reminders of just how complicated and restrained our culture has become.  I would hate to lose the wild and wooly freedom of the TRF "loud" campgrounds!  Long live the revellers! For truly, I am one.

However, as I have stated I think before, a society/culture governed only by anarchy tends to collapse on itself eventually. Things fall apart and a stronger authority steps in and says "everybody out of the pool!".  In camping at TRF for 10 years, I have seen the "wild and wooly" begin to morph into the "mean-spirited and nasty" more and more each year (NOTE - I'm not referring to HORD or you, Xed!!).  I dread the day it goes too far and someone steps in to put a halt to it all.

However, I think "civil discourse", as referred to by Keeperofthebar above (and what I personally would classify this thread), helps to define and shape the barriers and limits of our little culture before they get out of hand.  It's good to Hear from the new generation, like Xed, and the old farts, like me (yes, I'm older than most of you, I believe).  I consider us all a part of the same extended family.

Alas, strong but good-hearted debate without animosity or personal attack is a disappearing art, I'm afraid.
My apologies If I've said anything on a personal level that offendeth someone.

[BarbarianQueen]

With that being said, I'm done here.  I never intended to start a thread to bicker with any of you, or which relates my group of campers/friends to theives and thugs.
I'll see you all next season, hope you have a great year.

"Oh, oh, I see, running away then, are we?.  You yellow bastard!  Come back here and take what's coming to you.
      I'll bite your legs off!"

(name the movie for extra points!)

[Laird Fraser of Lovatt]

There seems to be some misunderstandings and whatnot going on.

Xed, I see where you are coming from and I've threatened my clanmates with my brass foghorn, a time or two, and gotten the response... "Blow that damn thing at my tent, at 7am, and i'll shove it ** **** ***".  Although with most, I'd actually like to see them try, (nothing like a good, half hungover, morning brawl to get the blood pumping) I have yet to break out this most annoying tool in my arsenal... key word being "YET".  I would say, let your neighbors actions dictate your morning ritual.  As far as traditional spots, having a landgrabber in place when the gates open is the best way to get "your" spot.  My clan has had people pitch camp along our borders and usually a heads up to them about our camping style is enough for them to either join the party or scoot over a bit.  Being friendly and bringing booze, when introducing your group, USUALLY smooths things out.
Notice I'm saying "usually" a lot... you'll run across cranky, uptight people out there, on occasion, and there will be no talking to them.  PR had a group, with a loud Chinese generator, that seemed hell bent on causing trouble a year or two ago... Even after being told to go F themselves, Teach and his people were the soul of courtesy.  It was a rough go but they let them slide... sort of. 

Every camp is different... most of us who love this are tolerant of other groups and the way they do things... we chalk it up to being part of the experience of camping at TRF.  No one here wants to bicker and this medium is probably the worst for actual peaceful debate and discussion, since emotions aren't properly conveyed.  I've seen the ugly specter of discord arise on here more than once this year and have been disappointed by this...I thought we all got past this a few years back, people.     Everyone needs to draw in their claws, let their hackles down and think about this in the off season.  Next year is the 40th anniversary of TRF and i plan to make it fanfreakingtastic... lets all, as R/F members, aim at this goal. 

The floor is open.  My rant is done.

*steps down off of soapbox*

[KiltedPrivateer]

Well Said

[xed]

With that being said, I'm done here.  I never intended to start a thread to bicker with any of you, or which relates my group of campers/friends to theives and thugs.
I'll see you all next season, hope you have a great year.

"Oh, oh, I see, running away then, are we?.  You yellow bastard!  Come back here and take what's coming to you.
      I'll bite your legs off!"

(name the movie for extra points!)

I'm afraid, my lady, that I've already racked up all the bonus points from quoting/calling monty python sketches/films allowable by law.  Now I just need a place to spend them.

There seems to be some misunderstandings and whatnot going on.

Xed, I see where you are coming from and I've threatened my clanmates with my brass foghorn, a time or two, and gotten the response... "Blow that damn thing at my tent, at 7am, and i'll shove it ** **** ***".  Although with most, I'd actually like to see them try, (nothing like a good, half hungover, morning brawl to get the blood pumping) I have yet to break out this most annoying tool in my arsenal... key word being "YET".  I would say, let your neighbors actions dictate your morning ritual.  As far as traditional spots, having a landgrabber in place when the gates open is the best way to get "your" spot.  My clan has had people pitch camp along our borders and usually a heads up to them about our camping style is enough for them to either join the party or scoot over a bit.  Being friendly and bringing booze, when introducing your group, USUALLY smooths things out.
Notice I'm saying "usually" a lot... you'll run across cranky, uptight people out there, on occasion, and there will be no talking to them.  PR had a group, with a loud Chinese generator, that seemed hell bent on causing trouble a year or two ago... Even after being told to go F themselves, Teach and his people were the soul of courtesy.  It was a rough go but they let them slide... sort of. 

Every camp is different... most of us who love this are tolerant of other groups and the way they do things... we chalk it up to being part of the experience of camping at TRF.  No one here wants to bicker and this medium is probably the worst for actual peaceful debate and discussion, since emotions aren't properly conveyed.  I've seen the ugly specter of discord arise on here more than once this year and have been disappointed by this...I thought we all got past this a few years back, people.     Everyone needs to draw in their claws, let their hackles down and think about this in the off season.  Next year is the 40th anniversary of TRF and i plan to make it fanfreakingtastic... lets all, as R/F members, aim at this goal. 

The floor is open.  My rant is done.

*steps down off of soapbox*

This is the type of response I was hoping for.  Thank you, Fraser, for reintroducing the lost art of civility.
My clanmates tend to threaten the same thing, but they've never attempted anything of the sort.  They usually wake up cursing my name, drink a cup of coffee, and then go on with their lives at the wonderful and exciting Texas Renaissance Festival.  By the end of the day, most of them are usually happy for the few extra hours of enjoyment, sponsored by a moment of annoyance.
As a sidenote, I'd love to hear the brass foghorn sometime.

I was actually hoping to hear some stories about how this clan or the other lost their camping spots for a year or two, and returned with a vengeance to sleep in the campground line while waiting for the gates to be opened.  Perhaps some "you are not alone" type of stuff.
I had no intention or desire for any bickering whatsoever.

[Laird Fraser of Lovatt]

It's all good, Xed. I've been a Landgrabber for McShuggenah and been sitting at the gates at 0 dark 30, on Thursday morning, for AHE.  I'm "usually" the first at the gates... after a half a bottle of loki, setting up camp can suck but it's a vital duty if you want an exact spot.

As i said... this medium sucks for conveying emotions.  Sarcasm and humor sometimes don't come across correctly.  I haven't run across a true a**clown on here in years, so i'm pretty sure that a lot of this hostility, lately, is just misunderstandings piling up on each other.   You should bring your group out AHE... it's when all of us freaks crawl out from under our rocks and the woodwork... y'all should fit right in!!  LOL.