Problems with the community fire

[Elnarii]

I understand now... sorry... lol...

So when and where can we sign?  Don't forget my signature.

A interesting detail about the fire pit... my first renfest experience involved arriving too early (and not understanding the whole campground setup, etc)... napping in the car in a parknig space until dawn...

The sound of the drums struck a chord in me... had I attended the fire pit back in 2002, I might have seen a dose of the original glory... sadly it wasn't until last year that I finally braved the campgrounds and saw the current state of the drum circle...  

I would LOVE to see it back to what I have heard that it used to be... (maybe because I didn't get to see the good version of it... lol)

[ravic]

I would also add that even some faire paytrons will lose the will into going the the faire itself.

Who really do you think keeps the faire going. It's not the day trippers. It's the playtrons. We are the ones that keep the shops open. Sure there alot of dane's comming and buying boose just like the rest of us. b

As a vendor, I'm going to have to disagree. Most of the shops do not depend upon playtrons to stay in business. True playtrons make up a minority of the audience. Most of the patrons come to faire but they don't actually do faire. they come out once or twice a year, see their favorite shows, eat their turkey leg, do some shopping, go home. Other than some of the specialty shops, we depend on those people to make money. What we try to do is provide enough of a positive experience that a) they want to come back & b) maybe join us.

[DonaCatalina]

as some of you know, i am starting a new faire over east of austin in early spring of 2010.  i want a very wholesome, powerful and soulful campfire/drumming/dancing experience as part of it.  would surely like some ideas and policies to establish from the onset to better ensure the fire circle will not become what it has out at trf presently.  like the concept of the ticket requirement; but that's still not compeltely sufficient.  www.swf-faire.com

my forst exposure to the fire/drum circles decades ago was one of the truly beautiful and enticing experiences into renfaire life.  bound to be able to recreate that magic.

Every year there is another thread complaining about the drunk/high thugs around the fire pit breaking glass and starting fights.
Most Rennie would happily pay a small surcharge, in addition to their Faire ticket, to camp on the Faire Grounds if it meant they could have a safe place to camp as a group. Many many years ago when TRF was further out in the boonies, the fire pit had its share of incidents, but nothing like it is now.

[Lady Ann of Draycott]

I don't go over to the fire circle. I went over there once last year just to see what it's all about and was not impressed. I'm pretty shy so I tend to stick by the people I know and people who know me. The fire circle is an environment that I do not feel comfortable being around.  I have plenty of fun sitting around the McLotofus fire circle with people I know...

I will add however, that the whole thing makes me nervous and uncomfortable because there is always the possiblity that the crap that goes on over there will spread like a communicable disease and invade my zone of security...and endanger my son and other children...

I would not hesitate to sign the petition...

[Lady Ann of Draycott]

Had Dillon not asked me to go see the fire throwers I would not have walked down there....

It's a real shame that we can't take our kids to see the fire throwers/twirlers/dancers because we are afraid of what they might see on the sidelines or that they might be injured...

[Randal]

Let me play Devil's Advocate here:

I'm TRF Management. This is my livelihood. I enjoy the faire, but go home to sleep in my own bed every night.

I receive a petition from a small percentage of the 300,000+ patrons who will attend this year asking that I put a stop to problems on the campsite. I can acknowledge that there is a problem, and spend time and money in an attempt to correct it. I'll make some people of those people happy, but I'll also make some mad. Over all, most people won't be happy. Some will think I'm being too strict, and others will think I'm not doing enough.

I can refuse to acknowledge the problem, and hope it sorts itself out. After all, the biggest portion of my patrons don't camp. Besides, I don't make any money off of the campers. Ten dollars per car load barely covers the cost of servicing the Porta-Potties. Perhaps the signs denying responsibility will protect me from liability, after all, I didn't ask them to camp there. At least I don't have to spend any time or money on the issue. This still leaves me with some angry customers, but you can't please everybody.

If I'm going to make people mad, I can shut down all camping completely, and guarantee that there is no more problem, without spending a dime. That will protect me from any liability even better than those signs and the statement on back of the tickets. It won't take much effort either. After all, this is private property. I might even save a little money, since I won't have to maintain the Porta-Potties, or clean up all of the trash that's left behind every weekend. Not to mention the risk of a campfire getting out of control and burning the whole faire down. Scarborough doesn't allow camping, and they seem to be doing pretty well...

Devil's Advocate mode off.

If you're going to present a petition to TRF Management, I suggest that you offer suggestions on how to correct the problem that will satisfy most of the campers, and motivate Management with the possibility of more money. Whatever you propose, the initial investment in time and money should be low, and the return on investment high. Offer enticements to improve things. Otherwise, the safest and easiest option is to eliminate the camping. Problem solved.

I wish I had some good suggestions. I truly miss the way Patron's Camping was. I would love to be able to sit around and enjoy some good food, good music, and good conversation, without dealing with the shiny happy people that are ruining it for all.

Randal

[Lord Dragonspyre]

I feel that the petition has a wonderful start but it does not feel as strongly as it should. I think before we submit it that it should have a better use of words.

That's why I posted it now, so that I can get a large amount of input into this.

It feels too young at this point to hand into corporate for TRF. They are legal people dealing with a legal situation and I think the petition needs to have more of a solid sound to it.

Well, I did write the whole thing today in the span of 15 minutes, so it's really nothing more than a rough draft right now.

My Significant other is a writer. would it be OK with you, Lord Dragonspyre, if I were to ask him to look it over and see if it could be worked on then repost the changes here for everyone to see?

That's why I put it up, but let's get some more suggestions on what to add before refining it.

[LadyTrinn]

May I suggest not slamming the security we do have. That job can't be easy....

Also, I stand by my earlier statement....if we don't go to the big fire, the problem will eventually take care of itself...maybe not this year or next but it will happen. I would really hate to have camping across the board taken away as a solution to this issue...(not that I don't think you did a great job on the petition DS, it sounds good...I just don't think thats the solution)

[Bonny Pearl]

I really wouldn't be surprised if there ends up being a huge bust sooner or later.  That would remedy the problem for a while at least.

[Lord Duelist]

Even though I'm not camping this year, I am reading all the threads about the camping experience, in hopes of learning things about the camping experience in preparation for my first time camping at a future faire in 2009 (hopefully prior to TRF, but certainly TRF if nowhere else).

I would love to be a part of what I am guessing the drum & fire circle used to be like. I have a very low tolerance for rap/hip-hop noise (I refuse to call it music, reserving that for melodic sounds actually pleasing to my ears) and would not have handled that incident very well at all, were I there. That, combined with the observations here, add up to this: I am glad I didn't make a more aggressive attempt to acquire camping gear and camp at least one weekend at TRF this year.

As far as TRF goes, I am one of the lucky ones; I live close enough to TRF that commuting instead of camping is a feasible option if it really comes down to it. However, someone (and I'll be darned if I remember who) told me when we were preparing grounds for that faire that didn't happen, that camping is a part of the experience for him, even giving me a shocked look when I mentioned I didn't camp. So I do see joining the camping scene as one more thing that separates the mundanes from the true rennies, and as something I do want to be a part of at least some of the time.

I definitely have an interest in helping to at least identify, if not fix, the problems next year. I have no problem with signing a petition, but I have a feeling that may not be enough.

I would like to think TRF wouldn't kill the camping completely to "solve" the problem. There *is* a KOA Kampground on TX 105 between FM 1774 and I-45, I think just west of Montgomery. I just saw it on the way back Saturday, and why I even remembered seeing it is beyond me. Of course, they probably want more than $10/vehicle/weekend.

[Tanyor]

After what Randal said. I scared.

Hrm. Maybe moving the camping check in closer and out of the way of the day tripper traffic. Charge 10 or 15 per vehicle with those who have tickets or willing to buy tickets there. but do this friday and saturday.

I really think if they just relocate the check in a little farther back to get out of the way of the day traffic.
Because come to think of it most of the "shiny happy people" ( nice Randal ) show up around Saturday evening. and I've seen them even set camp in the parking lot. And Enforce the windshield sticker.

Or we just bare with it and make chuck wagon circles like they did in the past to thwart Indian raids.

Oh an a quick fix for coolers is to put on a lockable hinge.  

Or we can get special boots made with daggers attached and we can start kicking tires till they get the point. Haha only kidding I think.

[brier patch charlie]

There is a way to stop a lot of the problems, but nobody will like it. Most of all the problems are caused buy kids and under 25 year olds who come for the GREAT TEXAS Camp out, it's the BIG PARTY. I only go to the Fire Pit only because I have to walk by it to go to the other camps. So here is my two pents worth. Close the fire pit, no more. And go back to the days of you have your own, that way YOU can run the little hooligans off. NO one under the age of 18 who is NOT accompanied buy Parant or Legal Guardian. Now comes the bomb! Camping fees increased to $30 dollars per person, yes I know that hurts for some one who has a big family, but I'm driving over 500 miles to come to TRF, and I'm willing to pay it. If they did all this things that would put a BIG dent in the problems they are having. A lot of the thug kids would stop coming, and so would most of the people who are there only to camp out and party.
   So, what do ya do, no matter which way you go your going to step on somebody's toes? And as I see it management, make a Little more money out of it and might go for.

[knarlyknot]

I concur with Dona Catalina.  While reading this thread this morning I thought that maybe making the campgrounds a "private club" might be an option.  For a nominal fee, say $10 each person would receive membership.  But membership would come with rules and stipulations, such as you screw up and get security called on you one too many times and you lose the priviledge.  George gets more money and hopefully we weed out the unwanted at the same time.

[brier patch charlie]

But making it a privet club, sounds nice but they too will pay 10 dollars to get a membership, so they can come party, so you havn't stopped anything.

[knarlyknot]

Then raise the price until you reach the point that we rennies will pay but they won't.