Chainmaille Show

[cowgrrl]

Full disclosure:  I was not able to get to TRF this year so I have not seen the Brazillian dancers.

The few times I've been to TRF & caught parts of the chainmaille show I've seen much more skin than I've ever seen at a Belly Dance show. Yes, you see cleavage & back & below the belly button to a point but I've never seen booty cleavage at a BD show or the lower half of the buttocks.
I never saw the show except in passing so I don't really have an opinion. The few times I walked by I did feel it was a little much.

[Laird Fraser of Lovatt]

Yeah, here's the Carnivale dancers carefully tucked away in their ever so period correct resturant;

When the are not performing they are often out front drumming up the punters. I saw this basically every day I was at faire this year, but seemingly missed all the Chainmail shows.
So I'm pretty sure the casual passerby is actually more likely to see some South American badonkadonk than chicks in chainmail, who might not any more HA, but are at least 'traditional' to TRF.

Hmmm... nice aaa.... errr.... hams! 

[Merlin the Elder]

(**snip**)... to be honest I've never understood American's unhealthy obsession with skin.

Sir Richard and I don't see eye-to-eye on a lot of things, but on this, I'm in total agreement.  Remember the furor when Jackson had her "wardrobe malfunction?"  There was someone ejected from Scarby this year that was wearing more than the girls in Zardoz's photo. Her photo was removed from this forum, and she was showing less than this photo.

I don't care how much the girls want to show, and I wouldn't worry about my child seeing them. There is nothing evil about the human body.

Maeven, whoever made those comments behind you needs to be taught a lesson. That is inexcusable.

[Sir Martin]

I'm glad Terre joined in the conversation and mentioned that the brevity of some of the chainmaille show's participants was not in question.  I'm sure most of us have seen some patrons more scantily dressed than many of the models in the show. 

For those who were not present, here are a few shots from the chainmaille show this past Sunday.  As usual, several of the people who participated accessorized with items fitting the themed weekend (in this case, Celtic Christmas).








This model is tall and willowy, and I've seen her in costumes more brief than this, but she has also dressed as one of the blue people from Avatar (among other characters).







This model was cute and charming (she's also a grandmother).




These 16 year old participants were veterans of the show.  There were a few others even younger than them.

[Sir Martin]

Some models were more enthusiastic dancers than others.  Still, there were very few moves that were more provacative than the belly dancers that perform in at least three other shows at TRF.













Is this really that bad?  A model removes a lace overskirt to reveal undergarments that are far more modest than what can be seen at Crystal Beach or Galveston.




And again, a model sways to the drum beat.  Pleasing, but not overtly sexual.  Last night I saw *more* skin (and more seductive moves) on a Victoria's Secret commercial immediately following Wheel of Fortune.





If we are going to discuss activities in the lanes at TRF that are offensive, how could we overlook the language shouted at high decibel levels by the pickle guy and the beef jerky guy?  Their sexual innuendo is overheard by THOUSANDS more people every day than those who view the chainmaille show.  There are no audible warnings or signs posted there ... patrons of all ages, genders, religions and races are exposed to the lascivious rants of guys who use provocation to sell their goods.

The Drench A Wench uses language *far* worse than the pickle and jerky guys, and she's in a corner of Sherwood Forest (arguably the most family-friendly section of TRF), not far from Cast In Bronze and The Maze.  LOTS of kids roam that area (and the warning sign at the Drench A Wench is teeny compared to the huge banner that is displayed at the chainmaille show).

Note:  I am OK with the belly dancers, pickle guy, jerky guy, Drench A Wench and chainmaille show because I understand that a ren fest is not meant to be the same environment as Disney World.  

[PollyPoPo]

Having been following this subject here and throughout the numerous on FB, it appears there is much more involved than just the amount of skin being shown.  As Terre posted, it is not the lack of clothing moving this situation. 

It just seems that way because it is more fun to talk about naked people than crowded lanes and business problems.  And look at pretty pictures. 

Ah, therein lies a problem.

(continued in another post)

[PollyPoPo]

Looking at pictures.

Unfortunately or not, the world keeps turning round and life changes.   Ten, twenty years ago, a volunteer model could get up on the balcony and, if only for a moment, enter a whole different world, then descend back into the real world with only a naughty little memory of "a time when..." 

Even if someone did catch a performance on camera, it didn't really mean that much.  I mean, your mother probably would never see it.  Then along came the internet, inexpensive digital cameras, and those pesky cell phone cameras.  Add Youtube, Flickr, and the others and that risqué moment is not yours any more; it now can belong to anybody out there. 

With a little time and a broadband connection (hey, we ain't got no stinking super high-speed out here), anybody can click a mouse a few times and come up with pictures from the chainmail show.  Most people at the show may never see anything particularly revealing, but someone wanting to find it will.  And they will post it on-line, somewhere. 

[Zardoz]

I've seen a couple references to one of the reasons being "complaints specifically due to photography"...  I'm wondering what this means?  I mean, are the folks in the show complaining that they are getting photographed, and then the photos end up on the web to be seen by their co-workers or mom ?  Sorry but if that's the case, you just need to not show up, because there's no such thing as limited exibitionism when everyone has a camera in their pocket.

[PollyPoPo]

I've seen a couple references to one of the reasons being "complaints specifically due to photography"...  I'm wondering what this means?  I mean, are the folks in the show complaining that they are getting photographed, and then the photos end up on the web to be seen by their co-workers or mom ?  Sorry but if that's the case, you just need to not show up, because there's no such thing as limited exibitionism when everyone has a camera in their pocket.

Ah, someone else gets it that the old saying "what happens at Faire stays at Faire" is no longer a valid excuse to complain when a picture of you being flogged in camp shows up on your mother's monitor.  It probably won't be worth as much money as the Kate and William shots, but there will always be someone, somewhere that uploads it just because they can.

[Laird Fraser of Lovatt]

This past weekend, i ran into "log jams" as big, if not bigger, than the one outside the chainmaille shop.  These happened to be some of the new "Lane" acts and the people were 20 deep later in the afternoon.  The Chainmaille Show has become an institution at TRF... like the parade and the Sea Devil.

*"What Happens At Faire Stays At Faire" is still in effect... most Rennies don't shoot "compromising" shots of their friends* 

[Zardoz]

*"What Happens At Faire Stays At Faire" is still in effect... most Rennies don't shoot "compromising" shots of their friends* 

Most rennies don't, but everyone has a camera now, most of them with web access. That compromising shot can be on somebody's FB page 20 seconds after it's taken. (provided they can get a signal at TRF)

[PollyPoPo]

This ...

*"What Happens At Faire Stays At Faire" is still in effect... most Rennies don't shoot "compromising" shots of their friends*  

Unfortunately, it is not always the Rennie friends doing the picture taking.  

It didn't take me long to find some Youtube, flickr and websites with not-quite so flattering pictures (and comments thereon) of the chainmail show models.


(Modified to add:  Zardoz got in there a bit before me.)

[Sir Martin]

If "photography" is a valid reason for nixing the chainmaille show, then the TRF Performance Company will need to be disbanded.  Yeah, I take more photos than most people (and less than some, for sure), but I have accidentally captured more wardrobe malfunctions from the cast at TRF (and other faires) than there ever were at a chainmaille show.  I will never show those photos and will never identify the actors involved.  Why? . . . because it would be in poor taste and the incidents happened by accident. 

Can we expect the TRF Performance Company to forbid female members from having anything other than a cowl or bateau neckline?  Will they cease to have the "impromptu" fights between members of the various courts?  The TRF cast is extremely talented and well prepared, but accidents happen when you are doing live performances ... that will never change.  The person who would post a shot of anyone having a clothing mishap is also quite capable of manufacturing a distorted, lewd image with Photoshop or other software.  It is the integrity of the photographer, not the performer (or model) that is in question.  Should photography be banned at TRF like it is at some concerts?  I think a camera check at the front gates would go over like a lead balloon.  It would be almost as bad as banning the sale of alcohol at TRF because some people imbibe too much and act in a disorderly manner.

[PollyPoPo]

I have not, yet, run across a picture of camp floxxxg post, though.

[Laird Fraser of Lovatt]

Hmmmm... there has only EVER been one shot taken of me that i haven't known about and the "compromising" ones I've set up ahead of time.  I behave in public... camp is another story.  Take pics of me at your own risk, when I'm not in faire.  None of this discussion is getting us anywhere...


I want to hear the REAL REASON behind all of this bull duckie...