Faire: Should it be Fantasy or Historically Accurate or a Mix?

[Capt Gabriela Fullpepper]

This past weekend Toki and I found ourselves at CoRF. It was an overcast day and at 99am it was 59 degree's out. (For once the day was not a socrcher) As he and I dressed (Him helping me more than I help him as my dress requires massive amounts of help) We say a Storm trooper. We had a laugh about it to ourselves and funny thing. We never once saw that Stormtrooper all day. Now CoRF isn't a HUGE faire, but it's not a small faire either. Opening weekend we say Obi-wan and Leia. I only saw them maybe twice all day.

Do the Sci-Fi and Goth's belong? good question. I personally take a look at their costume, make a comment to myself if it is good or bad and go about my away. I will say they stand out even more so than those of us dressed in more period garb and maybe that is what they are looking for.

As I asked once, don't you think that maybe the people dressed up as Star Wars or Star Trek or who ever Sci-Fi are just looking for attention?

Personally I get plenty of attention with how I am dressed and I try to have fun with it. But maye they are looking for more than that.

[Cobaltblu]

If star wars characters are looking for attention it is evidence of their lack of respect for the faire in my opinion.  The main reason they would expect to get attention by dressing as star wars is because they went to a renaissance festival where they would expect to stick out like a sore thumb.

Sure perhaps one could argue they expected to get attention because they were the very best stormtrooper possible however the main and most obvious reason is because they went to a renaissance festival where they expected not to fit in.  The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

They decide to not fit in by dressing in a manner inappropriate for the obvious intent of the event (it IS called a renaissance festival)...and however you spin that, it is just plain rude.

Therefor if they are satisfying their needs by being rude to others...they just don't belong at the event.

Certainly mundanes (and I hate calling them that because it has a negative connotation) who dress poorly by wearing short shorts when they weigh 700 lbs or wearing shirts which have curse words on them...are also being rude to their fellow patrons/playtrons.  But at least they didn't make a conscious choice to wear a costume which wasn't appropriate.

I think a costumed person (stormtrooper) is much more visible in a crowd than any particular person dressed in normal clothes.  Rennies are also much more visible in a crowd of mundanes.

I suppose if I could choose to attend a faire with ZERO mundanes and only costumed staff and garbed playtrons I would love the opportunity but that isn't likely.

Regards,

CB

[Tipsy Gypsy]

They decide to not fit in by dressing in a manner inappropriate for the obvious intent of the event (it IS called a renaissance festival)...and however you spin that, it is just plain rude.

Therefor if they are satisfying their needs by being rude to others...they just don't belong at the event.

Well... that's assuming that they realize it's inappropriate, too. What's blatantly obvious to us may not be to someone to whom faire isn't exactly their second home. At least they get the idea that it's a chance to wear something fun and be someone different, if only for a day, and perhaps it's an opportunity to encourage them to "come toward the light" .

For the sake of comparison, let's reverse the situation for a moment- renfolk at a normally "mundane" event? Milord and I live several lives simultaneously, one of them being representatives of his Scottish clan at cultural events. Appropriate attire at such is one's cultural dress (not a costume!), or 'danes. This includes tartan sashes, clan badges/pins, etc. on mundane clothing. On occasion, we get visitors from rennies in various kinds of garb from historical to hysterical, a few goths/emos, and the occasional "Bubba wit' a bat'leh" just for a little colorful WTF. Appropriate? No, but amid the restrained groans, I think most folks understand that they don't realize it's not really appropriate, any more than the redneck cousin that wears a tube top to a wedding realizes. But in either case, at least they thought enough to show up. And if they're treated graciously, sometimes they ask interested questions, try to learn, get excited about being a part of things rather than just a bystander, and you wind up with a loyal new kinsman in a snazzy- real! -kilt, an oft times, a friend.

(And oh yeah, we have self-appointed Tartan Police, believe me.  I'm a kilt purist, myself, but I try hard not to be a jerk, and to mitigate the effects of the TP by showing off milord's well-made kilt, sharing how well it adapts from casual wear to formal, and encouraging them to be choosy and make an investment that will give them a lifetime of enjoyment. It's as easy to be an ambassador as just an weed puller.)

[Cobaltblu]

I can't read people's minds to determine what they realize or do not realize.  I am an intelligent person who tries his best to dress and act in an appropriate manner.  Maybe some people aren't very intelligent and don't suspect that if an event is called "renaissance faire" that if they dress in garb perhaps they should dress in a renaissance outfit?  Perhaps those same people somehow get the idea of dressing in a costume and see the word "renaissance" and instantly determine their stormtrooper outfit is perfect for the event.

I just cannot fathom how someone would not realize that dressing as a stormtrooper or darth vader or star trek is appropriate garb for the "renaissance festival".  I mean they have got to at least think "hey its called a renaissance festival perhaps my scifi costume won't fit in?".

Regards,

CB

[Tipsy Gypsy]

Hey, it baffles me too. (shrugs)

Regardless, I think there's a difference between lack of intelligence and lack of information. Some people mean well, they just don't know better. Some people know better and just don't care; but my getting ruffled about it won't change them. And of those who who do it specifically to ruffle someone, why give them the satisfaction?

[Noble Dreg]

...And what in the name of St. Thomas Aquinas is up with those girls wearing the giant boots, shorty short skirts, long curly neon ribbons in pony-tails and their painted noses ... IN THE PARADE?!?  Now, take not myne meaning wrong, for I am much enamored of gazing at the long legs of young women, and 'tis myne own fondness for the peek-o-the-cheek they display, but the parade represents the Faire and they do not, in any way, represent my Faire.

I do not know why but suddenly I am happy...

[Angus]

Blakduke,
I realized his meaning, but the "Danes", as well as the "Trekkers", are not in a period costume and were lumped into a single reference by me...
...thanks for nitpicking! 

Truth be told, I do not see a future for any Festival that is exclusively "Historically Accurate", as it would not be fun...

Costumes aside, the Privies are not H/A, nor are the food, the construction of the grounds, buildings, the vendors sell "non-period" weapons, and etc...
so disagreeing about the Non-costumed patrons is moot.

So in light of continuing with the conversation, I concede to your views.

As in your reference to Henry II, I can only parallel.

My "local" RenFest is the KHRF, its' time period is the 1300's with Robert the Bruce on the throne, yet you see almost everyone wearing Kilts to the fest, when Kilts were not worn until ~400 years later...
...yet, everyone has a good time despite the vast differences.

[Synikul]

I just cannot fathom how someone would not realize that dressing as a stormtrooper or darth vader or star trek is appropriate garb for the "renaissance festival".  I mean they have got to at least think "hey its called a renaissance festival perhaps my scifi costume won't fit in?".

That's why there aren't too many of them.

I suppose if I could choose to attend a faire with ZERO mundanes and only costumed staff and garbed playtrons I would love the opportunity but that isn't likely.

You mentioned Sterling earlier, so I assume you live near there. Just north of Pittsburgh is an event you'd love.
http://www.pennsicwar.org/penn37/
I'll be there for twelve days and nights this year. 12,000 people, all in garb, all the time. It's one of the rules that you make a "credible attempt at medieval garb". Fantasy isn't prohibited, but is EXTREMELY frowned upon by everyone, unless you're a 6' hot redhead wearing leather boots with stilletto heels, a chain mail bikini bottom, a spiked leather corsett, and huge leather bat wings on your back. Nobody seems to mind her.

Go to Google Images, search "Pennsic", and enjoy the multitude of pages it will give you.

That being said it is a fact that any significant number of scifi characters WILL harm a faire by degrading its atmosphere.  While a few star trek or stormtroopers may be "quaint", a whole legion of them becomes an eyesore and is annoying.

I agree with you there, but I've never seen or heard of it becoming that big of a problem anywhere. Like I said earlier, it's only a few people in small groups at irregular times. If a platoon of stormtroopers were marching through the village every Saturday, I'd have a problem with it, but that just doesn't happen.

[Synikul]

Perhaps gentle tolerance toward off-period dress, Sci-Fi/fantasy/B&D/Goth/Wal-Mart halloween clearance/whateverthehell, and just letting folks come in, have a good time, and see for themselves the native renfolk in full plumage might inspire them to want to be a part of what's going on, and choose something closer to the theme of the event in the future? How many people have you seen (including yourself, perhaps) who've come in the gate the first time in 'danes, or in some attempt at garb, who then see all the costumes around them... and BING! the lightbulb comes on? Ta-daa, a rennie is born!

That's me.

[BLAKDUKE]

I assume you mean Henry II of France (1519 - 1559) who assumed the throne in 1547.  Otherwise if you are speaking of Henry II of Englane, it's a bit more than 16 years off, it's more like 397.  Henry II was born in 1133, came to the throne in 1154 and died in 1189.

Dayna

Your assumption is correct,  I meant HENRY II of France

[Dayna]

Perhaps gentle tolerance toward off-period dress, Sci-Fi/fantasy/B&D/Goth/Wal-Mart halloween clearance/whateverthehell, and just letting folks come in, have a good time, and see for themselves the native renfolk in full plumage might inspire them to want to be a part of what's going on, and choose something closer to the theme of the event in the future? How many people have you seen (including yourself, perhaps) who've come in the gate the first time in 'danes, or in some attempt at garb, who then see all the costumes around them... and BING!
the lightbulb comes on? Ta-daa, a rennie is born!

Me too!  First year mundanes, next year stretch knit 1200's garb, a few years later, appropriate fabric 1300's garb, moving into Felix Needleworthy, onward to wench to merchant to low-noble to "whoever I decide to be today" but (hopefully) always in clothing that's non-snickerable 

Dayna

[silverstah]

Why, oh, why would one make a period costume that they obviously took hours, days, weeks, months, years in planning and creating, only to use the worst possible materials and/or color choices?!?

Hee!  Just remember, the Elizabethans had a very different sense of color than we do in the 21st century.  Appalling color combinations like baby-puke green and orange were VERY fashionable in the 16th century.

So if someone is wearing something that looks like it's meticulously researched, but it's in a color combination that looks odd to the modern eye... it's probably proper for the time period.

[silverstah]

I suppose if I could choose to attend a faire with ZERO mundanes and only costumed staff and garbed playtrons I would love the opportunity but that isn't likely.

Come join the SCA.  We have cookies!

[robert of armstrong]

While I love the fact that so many put so much of their time and effort into making their garb and character's persona H/A, I also enjoy a little of the fantasy world too.  But I prefer Historically Appropriate Fantasy, if I may coin a term, meaning things that may have been believed in as being real in the past, or at least what the books and media have inspired me to understand what may have been real to those back then.  Trolls, dragons, elves, nymphs, fairies, satyrs, and other such similar creatures/characters are welcome, at least to me, along with people's spin on them.  And I just occurred to me that they are, by definition, H/A because they were thought to have existed by the people back then, and therefore the people of the Shire may have hoped/expected to see them, from time to time.

That being said, I have a problem with what would be, to the people of the Shire, Future Fantasy.  Star Trek, Star Wars, Animae and the like do not have a place at a RenFest.  (Yes I realize that the opening of Star Wars says "A Long Time Ago....")

Some of the characters' garb from Star Wars could pass, I suppose.  A Jedi's robes, without light saber or other such futuristic accessories would be okay, because they are just robes.  Many of the aliens from Star Wars could be interpreted as trolls or goblins, which I guess still passes what I alluded to earlier, as long as there aren't laser blasters or electronics or other futuristic inventions.  But Storm Troopers and Darth Vader's, with their plastics and blinking lights have no place at a Faire as we describe it.

There are places for those who choose to dress as an Anime character, or as a member of the Enterprise's crew or one of the Dark Emperor's guards to express themselves.  There are Sci-Fi Conventions and ComiCons all over the country.  If you want to wear that, go there to a place and gathering where you can be that character and not be so out of place that you get attention solely for the fact that you are so out of place.

As well, those attending know that it is a Renaissance Festival, or a Medieval Faire, and therefore the thought process for attending should involve a bit of forethought into what they will wear, if they are going to come in garb of some kind.  I they are willing to put enough effort into what they are going to wear that they will don a Storm Trooper's uniform, they can put a little more effort and examine why they want to wear it to a Faire.  Do they need attention that badly?  Or are they wearing it to be funny?

If that is the case, I wish that they would show the courtesy of thinking that some may think they are being made fun of by that choice of garb, and reconsider wearing it in the first place.  I go to Faires as often as I can, on every weekend that I am not working.  I travel more than four hours for the nearest permanent one to me.  I do not need a Boba Fete or a member of StarFleet Command mocking me during one of my weekends of escape.

I'm not saying that the Staff at the Gate shouldn't let them in; I just wish that people could be more self-evaluating in their behaviors, and how they may affect others.

[Elennare]

I'm curious why "goth" is being considered a non-appropriate costume or someone who doesn't belong at faire.  Several of my good friends in college were goths, and believe me, it's not a costume.  They dress like that every day.  It's their normal clothes, not a costume they decided to wear to the faire.