Is Purple historically accurate?

[DonaCatalina]

Ah, another can of worms. 

Purple for Royalty is a fair-ism also.  Because we are trained from childhood that it is so.  However it is based on a truth, in that it was Very expensive to create the crimson/purple, so only the very wealthy could afford it.  Also, sumptuary laws would create more stress on the person wanting to wear it, as there was a "fine". With that being said, it is not difficult to create a lavender, or other pale "purple", from natural ingredients.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69B7DWEKANY  Here is an example of how it was made.  Plus it's a great show.

And it is possible that the purple that the Romans and Medieval people knews was as purple as what we know today. Experiments with sea snails raised in special artificicial environments that were free of modern pollutants produced a brilliant royal purple.
Sumptuary laws which governed what people were fined for wearing changed from monarch to monarch and country to country. sumptuary laws in the middle ages were different that the Elizabethan ones.

[DonaCatalina]

Example of Tyrian purple from Murex sea snails.
Anybody found a portrait yet?

[isabelladangelo]

http://www.metmuseum.org/works_of_art/collection_database/the_costume_institute/jacket/objectview_altviewenlarge.aspx?page=1&sort=0&sortdir=asc&keyword=&fp=1&dd1=8&dd2=0&vw=0&collID=8&OID=80002278&vT=1&iID=4&iPage=1&hi=0&ov=0

An extant jacket from the 1610's with purple thread -among many other colors!

http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O8821/miniature-sir-thomas-more-and-his/ - purple velvet lined sleeves, black gowns, fur showing on the bottom, with red undersleeves

[gem]

As Isabella mentioned, the sleeves in this 1540 portrait by Bronzino look a little brownish on my monitor, but IRL they're a deep, vivid plum color (which Kate would call damson!):



You'll all note the color of the rest of her gown, as well. 

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

Because of how difficult it was to harvest enough Sea Snails, process them to produce the Color Purple, laws stated that the color  was only reserved for the Monarch and his/her immediate family members.

Though Woad was plentiful, this smelly, cabbage-like vegetable was processed to create the varying degrees of bright blues when the air hit the yarn strands.

[Master James]

Because of how difficult it was to harvest enough Sea Snails, process them to produce the Color Purple, laws stated that the color  was only reserved for the Monarch and his/her immediate family members.

That is not quite correct.  I have read many accounts where everybody all the way down to knights were allowed to wear some purple in their garb however based on rank the amount was regulated.  Knights were allowed very little where a Duke could wear almost as much as the monarch.

[operafantomet]

I'll repeat what I said in the other thread (about pink):

Again it comes down to the dye used. Fabrics mostly got their colour name from the dye used, and not from what colour people saw. Red was not limited to nobility in 1560s Florence, for example, but crimson was. Crimson was an expensive red dye, and because of this it was limited to the nobility. All who could afford it wore red, but only the very upper class wore crimson red. See the difference?

To some degree the same applies for purple shades. However, the purple shades are hard to produce, a lot harder than red shades, and was even more expensive than crimson. From Byzantine time porfyra (=purple) had been used by emperors and popes, and it remained expensive until the synthetic dyes were invented in the mid 19th century. Then the use of PURPLE and other bright colours exploded. From pictoral sources the Byzantine purple is a bit more red in appearance than the modern equivalent:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Justinian.jpg

But the Renaissance artist Botticelli has depicted a man in what I consider "modern purple" (I.E. more blue) in one of his illustrations of Dante's "Divina Commedia". It's the same man repeated, as he and Dante moves around in Inferno to see the punishments of "panderers and seducers and flatterers". I think he is to represent Virgil, but his purple cloak and tall hat is very un-Roman. Probably some symbolism I'm not getting there.
http://www.lib-art.com/imgpainting/8/7/7478-inferno-canto-xviii-sandro-botticelli.jpg

So purple did indeed exist in both its modern version and a more antique version. And as you suggest, it was reserved for the richest of the richest. Which I'm sure Gloriana would consider herself!

Here's more on the discussion of purple, which has been quite active at this board previously:
http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php?topic=3773.0

[Gauwyn of Bracknell]

We are richer than most in that period, so we will continue to wear purple (I am working on my third million, wasn't getting anywhere on the first 2). 

[isabelladangelo]

http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/kurzweil/apr3.htm <- A very purple dress being worn by an older German lady (warning, the guy next to her is mooning everyone so...)

http://www.photo.rmn.fr/cf/htm/CDocZ.aspx?o=&DT=ALB&E=2C6NU0O5XX22&Pass=&Total=14&Pic=3&SubE=2C6NU0G542UK <- I'm so happy I found this one because there is LOTS of purple in it.  Also, notice, there is one guy wearing a red cap so it's not just some weird faded red. 

http://www.photo.rmn.fr/cf/htm/CDocZ.aspx?o=&DT=ALB&E=2C6NU0MY6FVL&Pass=&Total=30&Pic=6&SubE=2C6NU09I6WEX <- Purple lined cloak

http://www.photo.rmn.fr/cf/htm/CDocZ.aspx?o=&DT=ALB&E=2C6NU0YC43QG&Pass=&Total=45&Pic=27&SubE=2C6NU09S6RB0 <- I think her skirt is actually a deep purple color.  If you look at the shoes -which are black, they aren't the same color at all. 

http://www.photo.rmn.fr/cf/htm/CDocZ.aspx?o=&DT=ALB&E=2C6NU09ZJVAH&Pass=&Total=22&Pic=10&SubE=2C6NU0S4KL61 < Pink and Purple in the same painting!!!  With a deep red, for contrast.

http://www.photo.rmn.fr/cf/htm/CDocZ.aspx?o=&DT=ALB&E=2C6NU09ZJVAH&Pass=&Total=22&Pic=11&SubE=2C6NU0S4KOI7 <- Some lovely lavender in this painting

http://www.photo.rmn.fr/cf/htm/CDocZ.aspx?o=&DT=ALB&E=2C6NU03IZ8J4&Pass=&Total=32&Pic=15&SubE=2C6NU04YI8AT <- Lots of purple paint on this one.  Again, the paints and dyes tended to come from the same plants, minerals, and animals.  If they had the paint to make it, they had the dye to make it too.

[isabelladangelo]

http://www.themorgan.org/collections/swf/exhibOnline.asp?id=344

Purple petticoat, red gown - Saint Nicholas not wearing red or fur or with a beard...

[Cilean]

We are actually speaking of apples to oranges.  Color terms changed, so what we know of called 'Purple' and its differing hues, had different names.  English of the Elizabeth's time would have known these terms but do you?  How about; Amaranth, or Murrey or Pansy or Gingerline or Mulberry to all are hues of Purple.  

Italian City States would have known these variants; Violato, Violetto, Hiacintho, Molochino, Morello, Porporina, Purpurato,


For instance? Do we see the term 'Lavender' past the meaning of the flower? We do know they had dye recipes for every thing and so we could be thinking "purple" but it is a completely different name....not unlike Pink, I remember when people stated since the term pink was never used? There was not a Pink that people used, and now we have many many many portraits that disprove that thought entirely!


Plus while checking out the gifts to Elizabeth during her reign, there were several purple and murrey kirtles, Petticoats, and sundries.

Cilean
Who adores that hue so very much!  :0P

[DonaCatalina]

Portrait of a lady with a dog by Paolo Caliari

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

That's a gorgeous portrait, Dona! Thinking about doing that one for yourself? You would look MARVELOUS!!!

[gem]

Oh, yes. Really spectacular. The colors are so unusual! Which bit are you seeing as purple, Dona C? On my monitor, her overgown looks like a deep smoky grey-blue, and the striped skirt/sleeves appear reddish, so, really, they both could be purplish!

This is making me think we should start a STRIPES thread! 

[CenturiesSewing]

Dona, unfortunately that version of the painting had its colors tweaked for working out color schemes.

If memory serves me:

http://trystancraft.com/costume/2007/11/18/veronese-inspiration/

The original is blue and white stripes rather then smokey plum.