Problems with the community fire

[Randal]

(Stuff snipped for brevity.)

TRF is indeed a business venture, but in my opinion, they are hurting themselves more financially by not doing anything about this problem. 

I camped out a couple times with a party of approximately 15 (all mundanes) on average.  We didn't know anybody there, and we camped far away from the 'excitement', BUT we still had to deal with idiots from the rave.  We all became so annoyed that we stopped camping, and instead of going full weekends a couple times during the season, we ended up going once (and it was only for a day) b/c the hotel costs were too high for many of us. AND our spending inside the faire was cut short (money as well as time - we drove there and back in the same day) So- they had us for one day at $21.00 per person = $315.00  instead of three or four weekends = $1800 plus $30 dollars (three cars) a weekend for camping. We may be a rare instance.  However, I have a feeling that a lot more mundanes would be willing to camp and go full weekends at a time if they would take care of the ravers.

Initially, they would need to step up security, etc.   After a while, when the crazies discover it's not a good area to have their kind of good time, then TRF could decrease the measures but keep the appearance of them, only really enforcing/picking up on them if it all starts to become a problem again.

This is the kind of thing that TRF Management needs to see. Cold hard numbers. I spent "X" number of dollars before, now I only spend "Y" because of the situation on the campsite. Not estimates of how many people might stop coming, but facts from people who have stopped, or cut back on how many times they come.

Randal

[Trillium]

Sadly, charging a large amount per person to camp will keep away people like us and our friends.  We can't afford $75-100 to camp, plus faire entry, food/entertainment.

[Blue66669]

Ok, this is getting way out of hand. I understand that we don't like the noise. You send a note to management and they'll suggest that you move your camp to Quiet Family Camping so that your delicate sensibilities won't be tampered with. We don't like the drunken teenagers flashing for free booze and ruining our fire circle. JUST DON'T GO!!! When the fire isn't chock full of "rennies gone wild" anymore, and they're not allowed into our private clan fires, they'll go somewhere else. It doesn't hurt my feelings to ditch the drum circle. Not one bit.

[Lord Dragonspyre]

Okay, here's a more revised version of the proposed petition. Feel free to criticize (constructively, of course) and make suggestions on what to add, take away, or change:

To the Texas Renaissance Festival Management,


The Texas Renaissance Festival, while a fantastic and beautiful place to visit, has a problem that needs to be addressed.

We, the Undersigned, do hereby set forth this petition for increased security and the removal of certain undesirable elements from the campgrounds. The campgrounds have long been a hallmark of the TRF experience, a place for patrons of the Faire to relax and socialize with other like-minded individuals in a communal atmosphere.

Unfortunately, that tradition has been sullied by the influx of people coming to the campgrounds simply to have a place to throw an out of control party and get intoxicated and/or high, and lose all sense of responsibility. This trend is leading to less and less enjoyment of the campgrounds to the point where people have stated that despite camping there for years, they would not want to camp anymore due to the dangers present. Other campers are worried about or even hesitant to bring their children or their friends out to the campgrounds due to the dangers involved.

There have been several incidents and worrisome trends at the campgrounds, some of which are detailed below:


-   Some campsites will play music all night long at top volume, and when politely asked to turn it down, will proceed to tell the person asking to perform an anatomically impossible maneuver and then threaten this person with bodily injury,
-   Bottles have been thrown and broken at the Fire Circle, endangering the bare feet of the dancers present and forcing them to leave for safety reasons,
-   Females have been inappropriately touched and/or propositioned, with the person doing the inappropriate touching not taking "no" for an answer, necessitating the intervention of others to protect the female from assault,
-   The crowds pressing around the Fire Circle have pressed in so close that fire spinners and fire breathers cannot perform for fear of getting hurt or hurting someone else,
-   Explosive items have been thrown into the Fire Circle, including but not limited to a beer keg and a bottle of charcoal lighter fluid,
-   Intoxicated and/or high people have been seen back flipping off of the fire at the Fire Circle, one of them actually falling into the fire itself,
-   There is an RV that parks next to the Fire Circle with a sign that reads "Show Your Hooters for Jello Shooters." This is inappropriate, only enticing the bad element at the Fire Circle into further inappropriate behavior.
-   There are campsites where the people therein have broken nearly every glass bottle they had and left it there on the grounds along with their garbage,
-   There was an incident where a camper dumped their still-smoldering firepit ashes onto a pile of garbage, risking a major fire if not for the timely intervention of another camping group,
-   There are people who walk into other campsites and steal what they want at night or even during the day,
-   Personal vehicles have been vandalized and even broken into,
-   There have been longstanding campers who have been accosted and assaulted by multiple assailants for no reason whatsoever other than the fact that the assailants, in a drunken stupor, wanted to beat someone up,
-   There is drug use rampant about the campgrounds, some even being brazen enough to walk into other campsites and ask if other campers have drugs for them,
-   There are people sneaking into the campgrounds without paying and bragging about it,
-   The Security personnel in the campgrounds do a wonderful job, but the limited number of personnel does not allow them to be truly effective. More patrols and more Security personnel are needed to enforce the rules,
-   The longstanding campers are worried about whether or not they should be armed at night, just to make sure their personal belongings are safe,
-   

Again, these are only a small portion of the problems seen at the campgrounds. The level of danger at the campgrounds can only hurt the image of the Festival, and it needs to be addressed.

The Undersigned have also compiled a list of ideas to help eliminate these issues:

-   Add more security to the campgrounds,
-   Identify and politely invite the Jello Shooter vehicle to never return,
-   Enforce the windshield placard policy,
-   Establish and enforce a zero tolerance policy regarding drug use
-   Ensure that those paying to camp have tickets to get into the Festival (to cut down on those there just to party),

[LadyElizabeth]

Blue, the big bonfire might not mean anything to you, but it means alot to me and others.  I don't know how long you've been coming to TRF, but the bonfire was one of the major reasons I fell in love with faire in general!!  Loosing the bonfire to the drunken, druggard kids is just sad.  I guess changing times comes with changing paces and a change in where we can hang out, but it seems unfair to the mass numbers of true rennies and the smaller number of "party goers".  There were alot of good ideas here, but just not sure what management would get on board with or what the clans would be interested in or what would actually work??

[Blue66669]

Well, I've been going to TRF religiously for the past 7 years, and I once thought drum circle was cool. Then I realized something- I fell in love with the people, not the pile of burning sticks. I can always find my fellow rennies, that's why god invented cell phones and clan banners. If you honestly think that TRF management doesn't know what's going on out there, then you mustn't understand the nature of the beast. King George has his ear to the ground. This is his baby- he knows what's up. He knew well enough to give us a quickie mart, AND a taco stand! He is in charge of arranging the cleanup on Monday, I'm sure there's a report of anything strange that is found- and this includes broken bottles and such.

I'm perfectly content to stay away from the madness and keep to those that I love and trust. I'll defend my camp, and keep my fairemily safe within it's boundaries. But, if you choose to go over to that bastard child that the fire circle has become, you're taking your own chances. And I don't feel sorry for someone that jumps into a tank of hungry sharks and then is surprised when they come out with a bite or two.

[LadyElizabeth]

I guess I'm just saying that this "shark" you speak of really only reared it's ugly head in the last 3 years.  Prior to that, the fire circle was a place FOR rennies all about the fair spirit and fair fun.... I just miss the old days and I think tons of others do to!

Lord Dragonspyre, I really like the petition.  I will certainly sign it this weekend or whenever possible.  I think you had all the important highlights from this now incredibly long thread of ideas and means of curbing problems.

[Lady Ann of Draycott]

I agree with Blue, the powers that be know what is going on and I also agree with what Randall said and I'm afraid that if we are not careful the powers that be may pull the plug on the whole camping issue and thus problem solved with no further expense incurred.  They may feel that it would be easier for them to make the whole problem go away than to deal with it just to make us happy.

[Spanish_Peacock]

blue66669:

Ok, this is getting way out of hand. I understand that we don't like the noise.

I understand your view, I've been out at TRF for about 30 years, as a patron, hawker, boothie, performer and playtron.
Examining the question "am I just getting too old or is this getting screwed up?" leads me to the conclusion that the camp is going through some major growing pains.

I respectfully disagree with your view, I believe It's the camp that is getting out of hand.
It's not the drum jam per se or noise, it's the assaults, thieving and belligerent behavior that have spread all over the camp.
I'm not saying it can ever go back to the way it was given how big it has grown but I think the stupidity needs to be curtailed.

And family camping is not big enough for all the camps anymore

I don't think anybody has a problem with a lively shindig or wants the camp to be quiet at the stroke of midnight.
But most folks want a bit of fair magic to carry on out into Playtrons.
I like drums, shenanigans, crazed nekkid dancing or a wolf run though I might avert my eyes depending on who it is.

Personally I lock up everything of value including ice chests when it gets late but everyone I know has had something stolen, in many cases very expensive things.
Not everyone who comes out for the first time is part of a large organized group and can set a night watch.
I've talked to people who got their costumes together, camped one time and had their valuables and ice chests ripped off.
Sometimes they never come back.
It didn't use to be this way and it shouldn't be this way.
This thriving board is a testament to the sense of community that makes the camp and TRF a place we hold dear.
I want the new people to have the same opportunity we had to discover the magic.

[LadyElizabeth]

Hear Hear Spanish-peacock!!  When I first started attending fair, I'd leave my car unlocked and all my valuables laying about my tent without the slightest fear of theivery.... Now I worry about the trashcan and flag outside the camper while we go on a walkabout!!  That's just ridiculous...

[Tanyor]

The jello shooter sign. I really don't think that's a huge problem. In no way am I wanting to ruin anyone's good time. I just would like to see the people with lack of respect go.. I was a wild child too. But giving the campfire to the drunk idiots, why not just give them the campsite also. First year I went friday night was Awesome the drums were putting me into a trance, as was the silhouette of girls belly dancing to the beat. That night turned me into a rennie. I met some wonderfull people that night willing to share there homemade brews. and I have some nice conversations.

Saturday night was fights and guys groping what few girls were there. And trying to entice them into dancing. The next year It got worse. And I hated it. Also there was a guy who bragged earlier that he had took alot of uppers. He stayed the whole night banging eraticly on his huge drum, with no beat what so ever.

Most of us camp to thwart the cost of hotel's on top of everything else.  and also get the chance to party and mingle with other rennies. Sure I know alot of us aren't squeaky clean on what we do after hours at our campsites. But I don't want that to go.

Maybe a raised price in camping would be a bad idea. But I'm pretty sure the kids with lack of respect don't pay there way to camp anyways. So building a fence separating the parking lot from camping, would enforce them to at lest pay like everyone else. And I'm sure it would run a few off.
And I considered it to suggest raising the price to fund a fence to entice TRF to see the $$ evolved.

[PyroMaster]

 With all due respect to the existing security...

I would think that a simple application of enforcing existing laws against under-aged drinking and controlled substances would eliminate the problem. A couple of surprise raids and the local hooligans causing the trouble will find somewhere else to trash.

No vigilantes, no fort-building and no exclusionary pricing, just good old-fashioned law enforcement.

It is not complicated.

[Blue66669]

Ok, Briga-freek   (btw, I LOVE you guys, you have a GREAT fire)

I see your point. In that case, the petition should only request more security on staff because of a fear of harm coming to life, limb, or property-  to keep the lot of us safe and secure. Nothing we can do about people that suck. They just suck, and they'll always suck. We complain about broken bottles, and they enforce a no glass policy. We complain about the ravers, and it looks like we're being elitist and we only want a certain kind of person there.

I do, however, have an idea.....

No visitors to camp under the age of 18 without a parent, guardian, or someone over the age of 35 with them.

OR......

TRF clearly states that camping is provided for 10.00 per car WITH the purchase of the ticket. You may enter the campgrounds (which should get more security) without a ticket for 20.00 per HEAD. That's a damn good price for a weekend of camping and no faire. So, the price goes up for those without tickets, and stays the same for we that have them. Will call??? Have a list to mark off. Group sales??? Have a list with the name of the group and give it to the guard. Otherwise, meet your friend outside to get your ticket. They don't let people into the movie theater without one, why should TRF?

Oh, and another thing- why is it so hard to believe that maybe, just maybe, there are even RENNIES out there that would steal your things? Not keeping them locked up in the first place is a BAD move.

[Fenster]

With all due respect to the existing security...

I would think that a simple application of enforcing existing laws against under-aged drinking and controlled substances would eliminate the problem. A couple of surprise raids and the local hooligans causing the trouble will find somewhere else to trash.

No vigilantes, no fort-building and no exclusionary pricing, just good old-fashioned law enforcement.

It is not complicated.

This could be done easily by having the police inside the gates (at least a portion of them) do a sweep through the campgrounds before leaving for the night.

[Tanyor]

blue sure it could be rennies. But its always been Saturday or Sunday when my things are stolen. And thats when the party kids show up.
And I never been asked for a beer from another rennie. Ive been asked for drugs,beer,water for a sick kid who's rolling to hard.


The Friday night bonfire is normally alot tamer than Satudays.

But if there was a way to enforce the laws better I up for it. the drinking age is 21 for a good reason.  But if you do illegal stuff, keep to yourself, don't announce your presence.