Next Week on Deadliest Warrior Knight vs Pirate

[Robert eben Hope]

So I just saw that next weeks match up on Spike's Deadliset Warrior is Knight vs Pirate.

For those of you who don't know this show pits warriors against each other and through science determines who would win in a fight to the death. Who do you think will win??

[Grov]

My vote is pirate for one simple reason.  Gunpowder. 

[Sir William Marcus]

It is unfortunate as it appears the knight in which they have chosen is of pre-gunpowder era

[Monsignor de Beaumanoir]

I would think to be "Fair" it would have to be an up close and personal fight with blades. If they allow a pirate the gunpowder option to a pre-gunpowder knight, then hell, you might as well fight the Black Knight torso of Monte Python.

They could at least use a 16th century Hospitaller or Teutonic Brother!


Brother William, don't let them forget that the Knights of Malta/St John/Hospitaller took a maritime role to combat piracy!

[Sir William Marcus]

I would think to be "Fair" it would have to be an up close and personal fight with blades. If they allow a pirate the gunpowder option to a pre-gunpowder knight, then hell, you might as well fight the Black Knight torso of Monte Python. 

ROFL!

They could at least use a 16th century Hospitaller or Teutonic Brother!

Absolutely

Brother William, don't let them forget that the Knights of Malta/St John/Hospitaller took a maritime role to combat piracy!

And not only were they very successful in combating piracy.  The pirates were also dealing with extremely well trained disciplined soldiers willing to die (martyrdom) in the name of their beliefs.

[Robert eben Hope]

I am shocked that this hasn't turned into a debate between the Knights and Pirates. I was sure that this would turn into a heated debate.

[Monsignor de Beaumanoir]

Really?  I would think that there would be no discussion at all......everyone is well aware that if a Knight were half the man he was, than he would still be twice the man a pirate could hope to be! 

[Chris B]

Personally, I think the whole concept is rather retarded.  It all boils down to the individual warrior and anyone would be foolish to think any full-time soldier of any period wouldn't adapt to the tactics and weapons of the time.  It really is a moot point all together.

[Monsignor de Beaumanoir]

Having been an Infantryman for 20 years, I would counter, that this line of thinking has sparked many a conversation to pass the time away in remote locations of the world. It makes folks open the books to research the details of their favorites. I would rather watch this, that alot of the other BS reality shows that they put out now.

I'd be interested in your take on the History Channel's Warriors as well..

[Chris B]

Don't get me wrong.  I watch a lot of these programs myself, and Military History is my favorite topic of discussion.  I think Hollywood overly simplifies their looks at these various cultures and tactics in warfare.  The discussion of the various tactics is fascinating, but using "science" to dictate an ultimate victor is what I find retarded.

I actually have higher end historically accurate full sets of weapons and armor from many of the cultures in question (Two 5th Century Greek Sets, 1st Century Roman, 10th Century Viking, 12th Century Templar, 16th Century Samurai).  Putting these warriors toe to toe and placing restrictions on them is a bit much. 

Anyone who seriously studies martial arts, tactics, or warfare or has worked in any field related to these areas knows that there are no hard and fast rules (and I am not implying anyone here doesn't know this).  You do what it takes to get the job done, accomplish your mission and go home at the end of the day.   Any of these soldiers would have studied up on the other tactics and cultures they would encounter in their respective periods and would have developed ways to overcome it.

For instance, the Samurai started adding ridges to their Do (breast plates) to help deflect musket fire and archeological evidence shows that several effectively had done just that.  Gunpowder does add an advantage, but even today, the two things that give you a tactical advantage with a firearm are (1) Time and (2) Distance.  Take away either, and your advantage tips to the one wielding a sword.  On the flip side, I am quite sure a pirate would have learned to effectively use an edged weapon and employed other weapons to counteract plate.  Bottom line, it would have always come back to the least common demoninator, the individual warrior.  Who was better trained, who wanted it more.....and you cannot take out blind luck or being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Edit:  Case in point.  Just watched it on Spike's website.  Just one example.  The "Ninja To" never existed.  The modern concept that ninja carried a straight sword is pure myth.  So change this one element and put the Katana in the ninjas hand instead.  The katana is more than capable of penetrating a Corinthian helmet.  The Kisaki would also have the ability to thrust through a bronze cuirass.  So the concept of the Spartan being impenetrable because of armor isn't necessarily correct.  Even the pyramidal butt end of the spartan spear (sauroter) was able to penetrate the cuirass as seen by square holes in cuirasses found.  I am just saying the information isn't always accurate on these shows.

[Monsignor de Beaumanoir]

Who was better trained, who wanted it more.....and you cannot take out blind luck or being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

This one can't deny, and luck....wasn't luck described as the ability to exploit the enemy's mistakes.....lol!

I actually have higher end historically accurate full sets of weapons and armor from many of the cultures in question (Two 5th Century Greek Sets, 1st Century Roman, 10th Century Viking, 12th Century Templar, 16th Century Samurai). 

There are many in these threads who would welcome the knowledge of where you acquired many of these items, to include myself!

[Chris B]

Ask away brother.  That's why I am here.  I have no qualms helping anyone with information I have acquired over the years on the sets I own.

I will say it is still interesting to see the visuals presented in these shows at least.

[Monsignor de Beaumanoir]

Chausses, where did you get yours, and are they of the lace up variety?
Halberk, yours: long sleeves with the mufflers?
Coif independent or part of the shirt?

What are your sources to acquire these items?

At 6'6", I have the devil of a time finding items that fit, especially in the helm area.

[Chris B]

My maille is 8mm mild steel, flat ring, wedge riveted.  The coif is independent of the hauberk and the hauberk is a long sleeve and down to mid thigh.  The chauses are solid around the thigh and calves and attach to a belt around the waste.  The only thing I am still having trouble finding like I really want are the mittens. 

I bought mine semi-custom through Armadillo Armorery and then ultimately from their source in India (Al Hamdt - sp?).  It took two years to finally get it.  There are still problems I see with it, but it is as good as anyone really is going to get without paying thousands to get a custom set that fits like a glove and that is tailored.  The contact for them is Suhel Subhani (alhamddtrpost@yahoo.com).  Tell him Chris Boatcallie referred you if you contact him.  I will warn that you would have to be patient and VERY clear as to exactly what you want.  It took them two tries to get it right on my set, but on a positive, I ended up with two sets of chausses, two coifs, and a hauberk for the price of one set because of the mistakes.

Your helm looks like a Valentine to me, but it is hard to see in the thumbnail.  I actually like those helms alot and bought one for my son.  My personal helmet is an Albion.  It is huge though. 

Here are a few pics of that set.  Since these early pics, I have hence, closed up the arms and put lacing around the wrists to close it.  I have also received the better chauses.

[Monsignor de Beaumanoir]

Always a favorite shot of mine. 
Yes you're correct, most will be dealing within a budget. It does take time to put things together. Currently we have a Brother on another thread who seeks a place to puchase a decent kite shield with the Hospitaller colors on it, although I'm sure he'd take a blank and do the work himself.

I have a set of "full" butted chausses, but don't like their attaching point. I'm contemplating cutting them in half and doing a lacing across the back.

Of course I could always go back to Iraq for a spell to purchase a good set of riveted chausses to go with my shirt.

Thanks for your reply.